You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!
If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.
So, I've given Ammit a while to acclimate. I'd say he's really cozy in his enclosure, as I've caught him just dozing off in the open on several occasions. He's already chosen two favorite hiding spots, and one spot he frequents to catch some fish.
He loves to hide under his 'bridge'. There's plantation underneath it that he also hides in while under there. All you can really see if you look back there is his snout. Many a fish died back there, LOL! He also loves to hide in the fake vines. The place he frequensts for fish hunting, besides his hides, is by the water filter. The fish seem to be attracted to the heavy current it produces and he uses that to his advantage.
I've also started spending some time with him to get him used to handling. He gets a little calmer each time, so I think that's a good sign. I'm well aware, though, that he needs to always be watched because, no matter how tame, he is a wild animal with instincts.
Here's some pictures!
Sittin' in our bed.
Crawled up and fell asleep on me.
Fell asleep on the bed, LOL, so cute!
Lounging on a fake bark decoration.
Gobblin' up a Black Molly.
Take 2 of the gobbles.
Trying to offer him thawed out shrimp, as I've seen some owners successfully feed this along with other items in their diet, but he's being a bit stubborn on being offered food. Here's a picture of him with a shrimp, but he didn't eat the whole thing. I've tried cutting it up, too, but I think he just needs to learn to get into the habit of being offered food. He's still young.
I doubt it's a good sign that it's falling asleep on you or the bed. I bet it's due to stress and nothing else. I think you should build an actual relationship with it through just proper feedings and mainentance.
If you're looking to make it easier on you in the future to deal with it, then I think you should sell it now. No one should consider owning something that is by nature pretty aggressive and making it "tame" or "docile". I strongly believe people shouldn't get an animal to cram into their lifestyle but one that already meets someone's lifestyle. I believe a bearded dragon is for you.
I doubt it's a good sign that it's falling asleep on you or the bed. I bet it's due to stress and nothing else. I think you should build an actual relationship with it through just proper feedings and mainentance.
If you're looking to make it easier on you in the future to deal with it, then I think you should sell it now. No one should consider owning something that is by nature pretty aggressive and making it "tame" or "docile". I strongly believe people shouldn't get an animal to cram into their lifestyle but one that already meets someone's lifestyle. I believe a bearded dragon is for you.
Stress would cause it to fall asleep?
Anyways, I'm not looking to tame it or make it docile, I'm fine with it being the way it is, but everyone needs to work with their reptiles on a daily basis after they've settled in for a while, otherwise you're going to wind up with a problem. If I never ever EVER worked with this crocodilian in my future years of owning it, I'd reckon the first time I did need to pick it up for whatever reason, I'd get the living crap bitten out of me, and it wouldn't be pretty at future sizes, I can guarantee you that. It'd be better for me to WORK WITH IT, and GET TO KNOW IT, than to be dealing with something I don't know crap about because I didn't take the time to learn its queues, its personality, etc. I wouldn't know jack crap about how mine, in particular, behaves, and that's BAD. For that reason, that's EXACTLY why everyone should work with their reptiles DAILY. Big or small, it doesn't matter.
I'd mentioned daily handling prior but did anyone complain about it? No. All they said was let it acclimate first then work with it daily, which is exactly what I'm doing.
Secondly, I don't like bearded dragons. I don't like them. I don't mind looking at them, but they do not appeal to me in the least.
Also, Cuvier's Dwarf Caimans have a nicer demeanor than others.
I doubt it's a good sign that it's falling asleep on you or the bed. I bet it's due to stress and nothing else. I think you should build an actual relationship with it through just proper feedings and mainentance.
If you're looking to make it easier on you in the future to deal with it, then I think you should sell it now. No one should consider owning something that is by nature pretty aggressive and making it "tame" or "docile". I strongly believe people shouldn't get an animal to cram into their lifestyle but one that already meets someone's lifestyle. I believe a bearded dragon is for you.
What's wrong with taming it down? It's not like she's giving it drugs to act placid.
What's wrong with taming it down? It's not like she's giving it drugs to act placid.
Personally, watching the video, I'd say it's definitely a risk to be in their natural element(in the water) at that size, but as my statement above says, if you know your reptile well enough and know when enough is enough to them, you know when you're about to have trouble and need to remove yourself asap. If ya don't work with 'em.. well, as I said, you could be in for an ugly surprise. I'd rather know my reptile than know nothing about -them-, specifically.
Anyways, I'm not looking to tame it or make it docile, I'm fine with it being the way it is, but everyone needs to work with their reptiles on a daily basis after they've settled in for a while, otherwise you're going to wind up with a problem. If I never ever EVER worked with this crocodilian in my future years of owning it, I'd reckon the first time I did need to pick it up for whatever reason, I'd get the living crap bitten out of me, and it wouldn't be pretty at future sizes, I can guarantee you that. It'd be better for me to WORK WITH IT, and GET TO KNOW IT, than to be dealing with something I don't know crap about because I didn't take the time to learn its queues, its personality, etc. I wouldn't know jack crap about how mine, in particular, behaves, and that's BAD. For that reason, that's EXACTLY why everyone should work with their reptiles DAILY. Big or small, it doesn't matter.
I'd mentioned daily handling prior but did anyone complain about it? No. All they said was let it acclimate first then work with it daily, which is exactly what I'm doing.
Secondly, I don't like bearded dragons. I don't like them. I don't mind looking at them, but they do not appeal to me in the least.
Also, Cuvier's Dwarf Caimans have a nicer demeanor than others.
I think you have misunderstood what Aaron is saying so let me try.
He isn't saying 'not' to work with it. He's saying to approach working with it on the caiman's terms. So not like you would work with a dog by training. For example: if you really look at the way Wayne and other varanid keepers work with their monitors they are not building trusting relationships by pulling them put and having them crawl on them. They are using tong feeding regimens and an over all hands off approach.
There is more than one way to learn the ques this animal will give you. Though some do in fact involve physical handling others involve close observation while the animal is in its own enclosure.
I personally feel that these animals have no business in private collection for the reasons you have stated in the part I quoted. I think you're a fine keeper and are really doing a decent job. I just don't think there are benefits to keeping them in private collection
Also, not sure about caimans but I know that a lot of lizards will close their eyes and 'sleep' when they are stressed.
Pet a bearded dragon on the head and they will 'sleep' in reality its a grimace which means 'stop touching me'
Anyways, I'm not looking to tame it or make it docile, I'm fine with it being the way it is, but everyone needs to work with their reptiles on a daily basis after they've settled in for a while, otherwise you're going to wind up with a problem. If I never ever EVER worked with this crocodilian in my future years of owning it, I'd reckon the first time I did need to pick it up for whatever reason, I'd get the living crap bitten out of me, and it wouldn't be pretty at future sizes, I can guarantee you that. It'd be better for me to WORK WITH IT, and GET TO KNOW IT, than to be dealing with something I don't know crap about because I didn't take the time to learn its queues, its personality, etc. I wouldn't know jack crap about how mine, in particular, behaves, and that's BAD. For that reason, that's EXACTLY why everyone should work with their reptiles DAILY. Big or small, it doesn't matter.
I'd mentioned daily handling prior but did anyone complain about it? No. All they said was let it acclimate first then work with it daily, which is exactly what I'm doing.
Secondly, I don't like bearded dragons. I don't like them. I don't mind looking at them, but they do not appeal to me in the least.
Also, Cuvier's Dwarf Caimans have a nicer demeanor than others.
Stress will cause it to pretend to be asleep. Essentially it is giving up and pretending to be a bump on a log in the hopes that you won't eat it. You see it with monitors all the time when they are forcefully handled. I would recommend the same treatment you would give a monitor, which is to simply leave it alone and let it come to trust you on its own terms. Treat it like a feral cat. Forcefully handling it will just lead to a Nile Monitor Syndrome. Someone buys a Nile and forcibly handles it all the time as a baby, in the hopes that it won't turn mean. Sure enough, it soon realizes that it can't fight back and simply gives up, and the keeper is put under the impression that they have succeeded. Then the Nile gets bigger. Suddenly it has large teeth and claws, plus a bullwhip for a tail, and it realizes now it can fight back, and it does, since all the handling only built resentment towards its keeper. This probably happens with a lot of reptiles, the only reason many are "tame" is that they simply aren't big enough to fight back.
I am friends with a man who owns a Cuvier's Dwarf Caiman, who simply put it in a large cage and left it alone. It is a very tractable animal most of the time.
I do not forcibly handle any of my animals, except if I need them out to clean the cage. If my snakes display any sign of not wanting to come out, I leave them be. Excepting cleaning and such, I only handle my snakes maybe once every other month. They are very calm animals, and are not at all defensive. My retic will come out of the cage on his own to explore, and will go back in when he wants. So no, you do not have to force your animals to like you, and you certainly don't have to handle them every day. In my experience, you really have better results if you don't.
What's wrong with taming it down? It's not like she's giving it drugs to act placid.
You're cute when you try to act smart.
Just because someone has a video of them doing something doesn't mean they are right. There's lots of videos of savannah monitors kept "properly" to the people who take them. We all know differently though, don't we?
Just because someone has a video of them doing something doesn't mean they are right. There's lots of videos of savannah monitors kept "properly" to the people who take them. We all know differently though, don't we?
And just because one animal of a species does something doesnt mean every other animal of that species will be the same.
Look at Tank. I wouldnt want to get that close to any other snapper!
__________________
May you have more good days than bad
You never know how strong you are - until being strong is your only choice
There are no dark clouds - just well hidden silver linings!!
Stress will cause it to pretend to be asleep. Essentially it is giving up and pretending to be a bump on a log in the hopes that you won't eat it. You see it with monitors all the time when they are forcefully handled. I would recommend the same treatment you would give a monitor, which is to simply leave it alone and let it come to trust you on its own terms. Treat it like a feral cat. Forcefully handling it will just lead to a Nile Monitor Syndrome. Someone buys a Nile and forcibly handles it all the time as a baby, in the hopes that it won't turn mean. Sure enough, it soon realizes that it can't fight back and simply gives up, and the keeper is put under the impression that they have succeeded. Then the Nile gets bigger. Suddenly it has large teeth and claws, plus a bullwhip for a tail, and it realizes now it can fight back, and it does, since all the handling only built resentment towards its keeper. This probably happens with a lot of reptiles, the only reason many are "tame" is that they simply aren't big enough to fight back.
I am friends with a man who owns a Cuvier's Dwarf Caiman, who simply put it in a large cage and left it alone. It is a very tractable animal most of the time.
I do not forcibly handle any of my animals, except if I need them out to clean the cage. If my snakes display any sign of not wanting to come out, I leave them be. Excepting cleaning and such, I only handle my snakes maybe once every other month. They are very calm animals, and are not at all defensive. My retic will come out of the cage on his own to explore, and will go back in when he wants. So no, you do not have to force your animals to like you, and you certainly don't have to handle them every day. In my experience, you really have better results if you don't.
Wow, is that his set up? Those are the kind of enclosures I -dream- of, I love realism and trying to replicate a natural environment as close as possible. He should really tell people how he managed such a beautiful mini-biome.
Anywho, well, ok then. As far as tong feeding, as I said, he doesn't really get it. Would removing feeder fish help the training process because then he would learn that I'm the one that offers food to him and so that he'd be hungry when I do offer it? Usually he has no interest in whatever I offer him, I assume because he's in there sucking up the fish whenever he wants. That's why I think not having feeders in there may improve the tong training process, so he'd be hungry when presented with food.
Also, I think some handling may be necessary, just not on a really frequent basis... Maybe once a week, once every two weeks, etc. I mean, I say this because everyone needs to take their animals to the vet if absolutely necessary(since vet trips stress reptiles a lot, sometimes does more harm than good depending on the situation), and need to pick them up or physically interact with them to clean their habitat. I know one day I'll physically be IN his habitat when he's older, but,(in light of what you and Ladybug said) by feeding regularly I'm sure he'd know I'm not some form of intruder that he needs to wipe out. At best he'd probably think I have food. Even then, he could still get territorial.
Also, Ladybug, if that were the case, what benefit would there be in people keeping things like corns, ball pythons, etc? It's a collection, plain and simple. Plus, you had no clue I would, one day, like to use him for education purposes. I'd love to teach people about animals, especially the ones that are seen as pests/vermin/what have you. Education is important, especially in the reptile business.
I put my personal opinions aside to try and 'soften' what Aaron said. The fact remains that ball pythons and corns can be kept in private captivity having all of their needs met. I don't believe alligators fall under this category. This is why Aaron said you shouldn't cram an animal into your lifestyle but instead opt to find an animal that already complements it.
You went from being an advocate of daily handling to one of occasional handling within the span of 2 responses. That along with the fact that you ignored the stress issue makes me think you bit off more than you can chew.
On the education argument since you brought it up...
Just because you own something doesn't make you qualified to educate others. As a parent I would be uncomfortable having someone who owns a small private collection of animals, with no other training (provided that is the case) teach him and expose him to a potentially dangerous situation.
I put my personal opinions aside to try and 'soften' what Aaron said. The fact remains that ball pythons and corns can be kept in private captivity having all of their needs met. I don't believe alligators fall under this category. This is why Aaron said you shouldn't cram an animal into your lifestyle but instead opt to find an animal that already complements it.
You went from being an advocate of daily handling to one of occasional handling within the span of 2 responses. That along with the fact that you ignored the stress issue makes me think you bit off more than you can chew.
On the education argument since you brought it up...
Just because you own something doesn't make you qualified to educate others. As a parent I would be uncomfortable having someone who owns a small private collection of animals, with no other training (provided that is the case) teach him and expose him to a potentially dangerous situation.
So I'm assuming you're calling all alligator/crocodile owners wrong, even the zoos that own them?
And no, I did not bite off more than I can chew. I've heard positives from daily handling and I know Wayne knows what he's doing, so if he finds more success with the feeding method(with the LARGE reptiles), then who am I to say it's wrong and I shouldn't try it? I can understand the thought process of,"I'm too small to do anything now." and then,"Now I can defend myself." It makes sense to me and after seeing it in that light, I'd be willing to try the feeding method. Plus, I did take stress into account, that's why I also decided to toss the daily handling and go with frequent handling to still get him used to the idea in case I ever do -need- to handle him. Why would I want to continue handling him and stressing him out? That'd be stupid and an atrocity for me to knowingly continue to stress him out.
Also, I'd intended to get training for public wildlife teaching when I was ready. You think I'm some sort of idiot that just takes my animals out without any form of professional training or license and show them off to small children? No, I do not, thanks for assuming crap of me. It takes more than just years of experience to teach the public about wildlife, as in professional training. I happen to have a friend in this business that can help me, so, once again, thanks for assuming things.
Jeez louis, this used to be a friendly community that assisted people as best as possible, but you people are just shooting down people trying to learn. First you want me to try the feeding method, and the moment I say,"Fine, I'll give it a shot," after looking at everybody's remarks on it and thinking on it, you flipping shoot me in the foot. It's a wonder that a lot of the newer members don't just walk out the door with people like you.
PS: Probably going to ignore you from now on unless you actually have something helpful to say instead of throwing crap at me. People come here to learn, if they didn't know something. They don't come here to be spat on.
Linear Mode
