Why is this considered acceptable?

[Andy_G]

Or a small enclosure less packed. I have never kept a snake in an enclosure that they couldn't properly thermoregulate in so that's a pretty poor
example...and as far as humidity goes...use a humid hide...and there's your microclimates.

I can appreciate where you're coming from, but can't even remotely agree that bigger is better becase of the behavioral nature of these animals. Birds are not snakes, and sometimes a snake is only in a tree to eat or find food...not because they enjoy being there or it enriches their lives somehow...they want a meal or they need to bask... You're still presenting to be a bit anthro in the opinions an ideas you have expressed here...and as FWK mentioned...a little carried away.

[bigsnakegirl785]

Originally Posted by FWK

You're getting a little carried away with this. At some point this enclosure has become so large it is impossible to find the animal so it can be fed. Perhaps we should add a colony of rats so that the snake can chose when and where to feed, or not to feed, whatever. It's not like we would know anyway.



I literally have no idea what this means.

Hence the reason why I outline the Length+Width rule, that is hardly getting carried away, I'd consider it a minimum, and that will provide ample room for a few microclimates.

As in I already linked to the same paper/essay/whatever in my previous post. All you did was post the same article from a different website.

Originally Posted by Andy_G

Or a small enclosure less packed. I have never kept a snake in an enclosure that they couldn't properly thermoregulate in so that's a pretty poor
example...and as far as humidity goes...use a humid hide...and there's your microclimates.

I can appreciate where you're coming from, but can't even remotely agree that bigger is better becase of the behavioral nature of these animals. Birds are not snakes, and sometimes a snake is only in a tree to eat or find food...not because they enjoy being there or it enriches their lives somehow...they want a meal or they need to bask... You're still presenting to be a bit anthro in the opinions an ideas you have expressed here...and as FWK mentioned...a little carried away.

I hardly think I'm getting carried away when I'm using an accepted minimum here. What are you people thinking I'm saying? Build a room for a garter snake?

[sirtalis]

Originally Posted by bigsnakegirl785

Hence the reason why I outline the Length+Width rule, that is hardly getting carried away, I'd consider it a minimum, and that will provide ample room for a few microclimates.

As in I already linked to the same paper/essay/whatever in my previous post. All you did was post the same article from a different website.



I hardly think I'm getting carried away when I'm using an accepted minimum here. What are you people thinking I'm saying? Build a room for a garter snake?

LOL at a room for a garter snake

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by Albert Clark

I don't see why you insist on calling people morons bc they are making a decision to overfeed their snakes. Cant they just be ignorant of the proper feeding procedure? Maybe they're new to the hobby. I don't see where that calls for a insult. Why cant the risks , pros and cons just be explained to people without the counterproductive terminology? Thanks.

I stand by this statement, that if you're overfeeding a snake then you're a moron because you're not thinking about the snakes long term health. HOWEVER, there's an exception to every rule, such as someone who was given improper guidance.

I don't see why you continue to throw out random scenarios that it wouldn't apply. I would think as an adult you would already know not everything is black and white but I suppose I needed to explain in greater detail. If you're still offended then that's on you at this point.

For the record, overfeeding a snake is a BAD THING and should not be done.

[Albert Clark]

@ Aaron: Thanks for getting back to me. I see your points. Thank you for the civility.

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by bigsnakegirl785

Hence the reason why I outline the Length+Width rule, that is hardly getting carried away, I'd consider it a minimum, and that will provide ample room for a few microclimates.
...I hardly think I'm getting carried away when I'm using an accepted minimum here. What are you people thinking I'm saying? Build a room for a garter snake?

You are giving the impression you're talking larger space. I don't see how a 2x2 for some species can be given such varied humid/dry areas (outside of a humid hide), light/dark space etc. as you described.

I am all for people enjoying their animals if all care has been met. I personally err on the side of caution when discussing all of these additions to an enclosure because then we're opening up everything to the possibility of more things to go wrong.

Sometimes we need to go back to "simple is best".

[bigsnakegirl785]

Originally Posted by sirtalis

LOL at a room for a garter snake

lol Me, too. Despite the assumptions people are making I do draw the line somewhere.

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

You are giving the impression you're talking larger space. I don't see how a 2x2 for some species can be given such varied humid/dry areas (outside of a humid hide), light/dark space etc. as you described.

I am all for people enjoying their animals if all care has been met. I personally err on the side of caution when discussing all of these additions to an enclosure because then we're opening up everything to the possibility of more things to go wrong.

Sometimes we need to go back to "simple is best".

Eh, that's why I vary the minimum by species.

I mean, I tried my best to show that wasn't what I was showing. I tried explaining exactly what I was saying, and even spaced out the paragraphs in order to make my points easier to read. *shrug*

Yeah, I guess with a beginner I could see simpler being better, but if someone wants to add some extra stuff and they have the know-how to tweak as needed, I think it's a bit unfair to say they're being irresponsible. And the microclimates could be as easy as just offering a thermal gradient and a humid hide here or there. Easy peasy.

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by bigsnakegirl785

lol Me, too. Despite the assumptions people are making I do draw the line somewhere.



Eh, that's why I vary the minimum by species.

I mean, I tried my best to show that wasn't what I was showing. I tried explaining exactly what I was saying, and even spaced out the paragraphs in order to make my points easier to read. *shrug*

Yeah, I guess with a beginner I could see simpler being better, but if someone wants to add some extra stuff and they have the know-how to tweak as needed, I think it's a bit unfair to say they're being irresponsible. And the microclimates could be as easy as just offering a thermal gradient and a humid hide here or there. Easy peasy.

Forums are forums. Sometimes what we say and type doesn't come across the way we intend. No harm, no foul.

I never said anyone would be being irresponsible offering a properly built larger enclosure with the appropriate amount of heat and humidity. Lots of pictures out there.

I personally find some of the really nice ones to probably look better without any animals in them, or just tiny animals, so they don't ruin the landscaping.

[bigsnakegirl785]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

Forums are forums. Sometimes what we say and type doesn't come across the way we intend. No harm, no foul.

I never said anyone would be being irresponsible offering a properly built larger enclosure with the appropriate amount of heat and humidity. Lots of pictures out there.

I personally find some of the really nice ones to probably look better without any animals in them, or just tiny animals, so they don't ruin the landscaping.

This is true.

You might not have but some others were saying this.

I'd have to agree! I've seen some absolutely amazing enclosures, some of them huge, some of them not, and the animals do tend to distract from it. In a personal home I suppose that's not so important, but sometimes I find myself looking at the cages rather than the animals in a really nice cage. Species like GTPs, and arboreal colubrids seem to fit nicely in those sorts of spaces, though, especially if their colors match the surroundings.