Why is this considered acceptable? - Page 2

**Minkness** · 02-29-16, 05:02 PM

Aaron makes a good point. I have a female hognose that runs laps in her enclosure. Constantly on the move unless she's digesting. She is in a tank bigger than 'suggested' as well. But I have another who is very lazy. He likes to curl up in his favorite corner and just sit there to watch the world outside. I could put him in an enclosure half the size of his current one, and I don't think it would make much of a difference. He is also a hognose. Likewise I did a test to see if my active female stayed active in a smaller enclosure. And she was. Same activity in a 5 gallon as a 20 long. She also ate consistently (if not better) in the small enclosure as the larger one. Only difference is, is that I enjoy seeing my active snake with more room. I doubt she really cares at all.

Arachnaeoccult · 03-01-16, 04:11 AM

My BP is in a 20 gallon and about 2.5 feet long.

sirtalis · 03-01-16, 09:35 AM

Thanks everyone, I had a thought that some snakes (in the same species) enjoy a different lifestyle. Some may prefer to sleep/hide/soak all day where others are more inclined to explore? I find this true with most people and tons of other animals. I prefer a very active lifestyle but my neighbor would rather stay home all day lol I mean my leopard geckos have very different personalities, My male sleeps all day while the female is exploring through the day. Just a thought

serpentgirl123 · 03-01-16, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sirtalis

Thanks everyone, I had a thought that some snakes (in the same species) enjoy a different lifestyle. Some may prefer to sleep/hide/soak all day where others are more inclined to explore? I find this true with most people and tons of other animals. I prefer a very active lifestyle but my neighbor would rather stay home all day lol I mean my leopard geckos have very different personalities, My male sleeps all day while the female is exploring through the day. Just a thought

Exactly! I try to cater to each of my animals/snakes different and individual lifestyles. I have more than a few snakes (boas, carpets, and colubrids) that prefer to just sit in one corner 90% of the time no matter how big/small their environment is and others that don't. One of my carpets, I realized, would prefer to climb and when I get done moving, I will get him a taller enclosure. While the other 2, hardly ever use the shelf at all, unless they make a mess on the ground level, but the option is there.

Albert Clark · 03-01-16, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

I think this has less to do with enclosure size than it does with diets and moronic people overfeeding snakes. A lot of snakes in general are obese.

Well said. Nothing to add to it. I simply agree that as long as the animal is properly cared for then I don't have a problem with a tub, enclosure, aquarium etc.

I will say however, for those who weren't around 2 decades ago tubs are a huge reason that the hobby is where it is today. It really helped get a lot of "hard to keep", "hard to acclimate" and "hard to breed" species in the mainstream.

Here's how it works...tubs and rack systems streamlined keeping. It allowed keepers to dial in humidity, heat, security and diets to learn how to keep species alive and eventually breed. It took out the variables of different substrates, trying to heat too much room or keep humidity up with an overhead heat lamp (one of the few ways to heat an enclosure 20 years ago), sickness and illnesses and etc.

Since then, especially in the previous 5 or so years, there's been a marked increase of people starting to go back to a more naturalistic environment for their charges. It's fantastic to see and I hope it continues.

@ Aaron: Come on now, name calling is unnecessary. I overfeed a couple of my animals when they are building and if they will take food when they are gravid. I've had no slugs , no birth defects, 100% hatch rate and the female adults all are healthy and resume a normal feeding schedule. Moronic? That is really a insult.

**Andy_G** · 03-01-16, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Albert Clark

@ Aaron: Come on now, name calling is unnecessary. I overfeed a couple of my animals when they are building and if they will take food when they are gravid. I've had no slugs , no birth defects, 100% hatch rate and the female adults all are healthy and resume a normal feeding schedule. Moronic? That is really a insult.

I will hold back my thoughts on this statement you've made as I don't know how many years you've successfully bred ball pythons for...but could you tell me what I'm missing here? When did Aaron single you out in this thread or call you anything?

**Minkness** · 03-01-16, 03:22 PM

Albert feels like Aaron called him a moron for 'over feeding' his snakes sometimes.

**Andy_G** · 03-01-16, 03:37 PM

I'm thinking a private message would've been a bit more appropriate...because now we can all see someone's panties bunched up.

bigsnakegirl785 · 03-01-16, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

Why does an enclosure mean a snake isn't sedentary while a tub means they are? The surface area may be smaller but it doesn't mean the snake isn't moving. It may just make more circuits in a given time frame than in a bigger enclosure.

It doesn't, but it does encourage it. You'll notice more activity out of a snake with multiple different things to explore than a snake in a cage 1/3 of its body length and nothing but a hide, even if it does laps. As loosely as I use this term, snakes get bored. Some may continue to take laps, but doing laps around a tiny rack isn't the same as being able to climb and having a cage 1/2-1x+ the snake's.

Again, I do not have a problem with tubs in general. It's possible to have adequate floor space and height with a tub, I just usually don't see such accommodations in a rack set up. After a certain size, tubs also become unsuitable for permanent housing. Even though the Christmas totes have enough room for a 6' snake, I would not keep a 6' semi-arboreal or arboreal snake in it, it would be good for a ball python or similar, though. It has a very thin width and isn't very tall. But most tubs work for snakes 5' or under (depending on species).

If you want to see how active your snakes are, try setting up a camera to view them all night! I've been seeing a few people doing this lately, and snakes they thought never moved ended up giving them 6 straight hours of footage. You'd be surprised.

RAD House · 03-01-16, 04:12 PM

Big snake girl you are making the assumption that all snakes need the same amount of enrichment and space relative to size. Snakes occupy many different niches in the wild so this is simply not true. If a ball python thrives well in a space you deem to small than isn't it really more of an opinion at that piont? If I am being honest an opinion you do not seem to have much proof of.

**Andy_G** · 03-01-16, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MesoCorney

Big snake girl you are making the assumption that all snakes need the same amount of enrichment and space relative to size. Snakes occupy many different niches in the wild so this is simply not true. If a ball python thrives well in a space you deem to small than isn't it really more of an opinion at that piont? If I am being honest an opinion you do not seem to have much proof of.

x2. We are getting very anthropomorphic here and assuming an awful lot...including that the "exploring" in a larger cage is not caused by stress but by the animal's wants and desires when the exact opposite could in fact be true...

Albert Clark · 03-01-16, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy_G

I will hold back my thoughts on this statement you've made as I don't know how many years you've successfully bred ball pythons for...but could you tell me what I'm missing here? When did Aaron single you out in this thread or call you anything?

Doesn't matter how long I've been doing any of my business, a insult was directed at anyone who over feeds or has overfed their snakes. The insult was in poor taste Andy. Its belittling and counterproductive. Period.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy_G

I'm thinking a private message would've been a bit more appropriate...because now we can all see someone's panties bunched up.

What you think and what someone else thinks are different things. My message was directed to Aaron. You can pull your panties up now!

**Andy_G** · 03-01-16, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Albert Clark

Doesn't matter how long I've been doing any of my business, a insult was directed at anyone who over feeds or has overfed their snakes. The insult was in poor taste Andy. Its belittling and counterproductive. Period.

What you think and what someone else thinks are different things. My message was directed to Aaron. You can pull your panties up now!

So...he's talking about chronic overfeeding affecting a captive snake to the point of being a direct cause of fatty liver disease....which IS a moronic thing to do whether you like it or not (but it can be learned from or changed), and a problem in our hobby...and you're taking it personally because you bump feeding schedules during breeding season...nope...apples and oranges there...still pretty sure i'm missing something. Must be...personal...? If not...sunshine and rainbows as they say...

Panties? What panties.

Albert Clark · 03-01-16, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy_G

So...he's talking about chronic overfeeding affecting a captive snake to the point of being a direct cause of fatty liver disease....which IS a moronic thing to do whether you like it or not (but it can be learned from or changed), and a problem in our hobby...and you're taking it personally because you bump feeding schedules during breeding season...nope...apples and oranges there...still pretty sure i'm missing something. Must be...personal...? If not...sunshine and rainbows as they say...

Panties? What panties.

The words written were specifically "moronic people"!!!!!! And since you care to justify the insult, who died and made you commander in chief???? No, not personal. Just taking up for the mentally challenged people of the world who are the real recipients of the term "moronic people". Still insulting. Good night and have a rat day!!

**Andy_G** · 03-02-16, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Albert Clark

The words written were specifically "moronic people"!!!!!! And since you care to justify the insult, who died and made you commander in chief???? No, not personal. Just taking up for the mentally challenged people of the world who are the real recipients of the term "moronic people". Still insulting. Good night and have a rat day!!

Commander in chief reporting in. Going forward, I vote that we use the term "****ing dumb" to avoid offending anyone who takes words on an internet forum, however misused at the time (CLEARLY not the intent here, which shouldn't need to be explained, but anyways...), drastically out of context and extremely literal. Now let's all have a "rat day" and let this matter rest? And remember kids, don't overfeed your snakes to the point of making them ill or killing them, because it's ****ing dumb.