Uh-oh. I'm probably gonna' be in trouble - Page 4

**EL Ziggy** · 02-03-14, 11:27 AM

I have mixed feeling on this one. I don't condone breaking the law but I have broken a few in my time. Some laws are stupid and intrusive and I choose to overlook them, but I'm always willing to face the consequences of my actions. The speed limit is 55 mph on I-75 and I break that law every day. I live in GA as well and was disappointed to learn that we can't own corn snakes, some milk snakes, or some eastern king snakes. We are allowed to have non native kings. I bought my Cal King at Petsmart. I was going to buy a beautiful southern pine snake, when I couldn't find the patternless bull snake I was originally looking for, but those are prohibited too. I eventually found an albino bull snake that worked out great. I do agree that there are a lot of other great snakes we can keep within the confines of the law and I would advise the OP to go that route but I strongly disagree that one person owning a harmless corn snake reflects poorly on the entire hobby. We are all individuals, not the collective borg, and should only be measured by our individual deeds.

robertjnovak59 · 02-03-14, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tsubaki

It would be here, any escaped snake has a big chance of making the news. Police here knows nothing of snakes, we only have 3 native species and those are very rare and endangered. You will only see them if you actively go looking for them, which is not allowed because you get fined for disturbing them haha.

For example: This is how an article about a found 1 foot long cornsnake would start: -'Unknown potentially Dangerous 5 foot snake found NEAR CHILDREN'- A potentially dangerous snake has been found in the proximity of a school, the snake is most likely an escaped exotic pet and the police is looking for it's owner. A snake expert has been contact to collect the animal. - Followed up by terrified parents blabla..... heh...Yea..... Even if there is an expert present telling them the animal is not dangerous, they still get 80% of the information wrong. Any escaping snake here, is devastating for the hobby.

Then again, i am not American. People here are not used to snakes.

That is the cool thing about forums like this, hearing what its like in other countries.

Shann · 02-03-14, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EL-Ziggy

We are all individuals, not the collective borg, and should only be measured by our individual deeds.

Should be. Unfortunately when this comes to something like keep in snakes, we are all lumped together by the general public.

**Aaron_S** · 02-03-14, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shann

Should be. Unfortunately when this comes to something like keep in snakes, we are all lumped together by the general public.

Exactly.

We can't be constantly trying to be a community and individuals at the same time...

Pick one.

**EL Ziggy** · 02-03-14, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

Exactly.

We can't be constantly trying to be a community and individuals at the same time...

Pick one.

A community is made up of individuals. We may share a common hobby but we are only responsible for our personal actions. You can't be held accountable for what I do, nor can I be held liable for the actions of another, unless we conspired together.

Mikoh4792 · 02-03-14, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EL-Ziggy

A community is made up of individuals. We may share a common hobby but we are only responsible for our personal actions. You can't be held accountable for what I do, nor can I be held liable for the actions of another, unless we conspired together.

Sadly a lot of times the outside does not look at it that way. When one person messes up, it can affect the community as a whole. But I guess educating people does help in making more rational judgements about us.

**Aaron_S** · 02-03-14, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EL-Ziggy

A community is made up of individuals. We may share a common hobby but we are only responsible for our personal actions. You can't be held accountable for what I do, nor can I be held liable for the actions of another, unless we conspired together.

Too bad that's not how the world works.

robertjnovak59 · 02-03-14, 01:34 PM

I think that would be an interesting legal argument. If you owned a morph, that wasnt found in the wild, of an indigenous species wouldn't you still be legal within the intent of the law since the morph proves it wasnt a wild snake?

Valvaren · 02-03-14, 01:53 PM

People who think that breaking one little law can't have an effect on the hobby on a much larger scale are fools.

**Aaron_S** · 02-03-14, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robertjnovak59

I think that would be an interesting legal argument. If you owned a morph, that wasnt found in the wild, of an indigenous species wouldn't you still be legal within the intent of the law since the morph proves it wasnt a wild snake?

It's still of the same species.

I know here in Ontario you can't own Eastern hognose snakes. No matter where they came from. To the law it's all the same and I think it may have to do with releasing them into wild populations as well.

A captive animal can introduce bad things to wild populations too.

Alexa · 02-03-14, 03:07 PM

And the "bad bugs" stuff happens all the time.

The example that I am most familiar with is the California Desert Tortoise. Captive tortoises have introduced respiratory diseases to wild desert tortoises, causing many fatalities.

I would love to see a wild desert tortoise, but between habitat loss, introduces predators, and introduced diseases, I may never be able to do that.

The regulatory agencies are doing their best with the information they have, much of which comes from herpetologists and other scientific researchers who are in the field doing the best they can to conserve species that we love, and that we need.

The government frequently doesn't go about it the best way, but they are (usually) doing what they can to protect the native wildlife. And they sometimes have some damn good reasons for doing what they do.

**Aaron_S** · 02-03-14, 04:18 PM

Furthermore, it's a lot easier for the agencies to outright ban the species as a whole because then it's less work for their officers. They don't have to know all the morphs of every species to do their job.

We can agree that some morphs make the snake look like something else.

Also I am sure that would also open the doors to what about hybrids and hybrid morphs?

BIGT FROM F.B. · 02-03-14, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EL-Ziggy

I have mixed feeling on this one. I don't condone breaking the law but I have broken a few in my time. Some laws are stupid and intrusive and I choose to overlook them, but I'm always willing to face the consequences of my actions. The speed limit is 55 mph on I-75 and I break that law every day. I live in GA as well and was disappointed to learn that we can't own corn snakes, some milk snakes, or some eastern king snakes. We are allowed to have non native kings. I bought my Cal King at Petsmart. I was going to buy a beautiful southern pine snake, when I couldn't find the patternless bull snake I was originally looking for, but those are prohibited too. I eventually found an albino bull snake that worked out great. I do agree that there are a lot of other great snakes we can keep within the confines of the law and I would advise the OP to go that route but I strongly disagree that one person owning a harmless corn snake reflects poorly on the entire hobby. We are all individuals, not the collective borg, and should only be measured by our individual deeds.

Thank you, my Georgian Brother. LOL!!! That's all I was trying to say starting this thread. I had no idea it was going to turn into an all-out, good ol' bar brawl. I wasn't bragging that I was a daring law breaker and that I dared anyone to try and stop me. LOL!. No, I was just talking about how absurd a lot of laws our Politicians think of and the tax payers money they waste to enforce something that dumb. Furthermore, I am not smashing anyone's views here, but those who think that the general public actually have a say anymore as to what laws are passed or not, I find that adorable the dream still lives on. Love all you guys/gals on here.

**Aaron_S** · 02-03-14, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIGT FROM F.B.

Thank you, my Georgian Brother. LOL!!! That's all I was trying to say starting this thread. I had no idea it was going to turn into an all-out, good ol' bar brawl. I wasn't bragging that I was a daring law breaker and that I dared anyone to try and stop me. LOL!. No, I was just talking about how absurd a lot of laws our Politicians think of and the tax payers money they waste to enforce something that dumb. Furthermore, I am not smashing anyone's views here, but those who think that the general public actually have a say anymore as to what laws are passed or not, I find that adorable the dream still lives on. Love all you guys/gals on here.

I find it adorable when people who have no clue what their talking about try and come off like they do.

I know a handful of people (including myself) that were at a local council meeting and got the proposed all out exotic ban to convert to a 2 meter rule for snakes. That's not everything but it certainly proved your theory wrong.

Glad to know you're only willing to complain about it over the internet and not actually do anything about it.

BIGT FROM F.B. · 02-03-14, 05:38 PM

This may not be on the same level, but I have a 24" Red Bellied Pacu that I have been trying to sell for a while. Of course, a fish that large will be hard pressed to find a new home, especially since he is tropical and needs warm water year round. Does that mean I will do something irresponsible like releasing him locally up here to die? No. I will continue to take care of it like I always have and will with any animal I have.

Like the Burms and others that have taken over the Everglades, this could happen to any species of animal. I read an article several years ago about a teenage boy in south Flordia that had a Pacu in a tank that end up being too small for this fish. When that did happen, he released it in his next door neighbor's pond without telling him. Of course, the water stayed warm enough down there for it to survive. A few years later, the neighbor was fishing and caught it, not having a clue what it was. It weighed 36 pounds!!!

Pacu's are also supposed to be Omnivores, but I can tell you that is definitely not the case. Mine will eat other fish and will suck up a small mouse in the blink of an eye.