Quote:
Originally Posted by Roman
Oh, I suppose some of my posts (OK, probably most of them) are a little longer than the average post in this forum, guilty as charged… 
There is a reason behind this. I am a systems and network guy, but part of my job is also to teach my users and sometimes external attendees as well. Since 1995 I have accumulated something like 15,000 hours in adult education and training, from beginners to specialty workshops for experts. What I learned in doing this is that you can’t teach an adult by saying “do it because I tell you so”, you have to provide the reason behind it and if possible an example to explain something.
This has certainly rubbed of, I know that I sometimes try to explain something which might be obvious (at least for some/most readers), but that’s another thing, you can’t assume that everybody you explain something to has already a certain knowledge, you always start with some basics to lay the groundworks.
I don’t have the ambition to write any “academic paper” in this forum, but if I think it is necessary to make my point and to explain my reasoning I will do so, without adding a summery and a conclusion for the “lazy” reader. If you don’t want to read it all, but comment it anyway, I might call certain points to your attention I made in the previous post.
Accessibility is a nice thing to have, but as I said, in my opinion it is better to provide your reasoning in the first place and not handing it out in pieces one post at a time.
“Tooting my own horn” – never heard that before, learned something new here… But seriously, don’t you think if I really wanted to toot my horn I would post more often than I do? I write something if I think I can add some helpful information, preferable first-hand experience I made myself. I don’t need to mix myself in any thread just to push my post count.
Why not? If I think a tub is not the optimal enclosure to provide the enrichment we could provide to any of our reptiles if we used an adequately sized enclosure with the right equipment, why should I not point it out? Especially if I provide the reasons why I think it to be suboptimal?
I suppose we can agree on not agreeing on the usability of tubs as longtime enclosures. I explained my reasons why I think tubs are suboptimal, if you don’t agree or only partly agree I suppose I can’t change your mind. I suppose you think the initial costs of buying a terrarium is more than the “average beginner” is willing to invest. On the other hand, a glass terrarium or a plywood terrarium 120 x 60 x 60 cm (4 x 2 x 2 ft) is about 150 Euro (ca 180 USD) if you buy it retail. If you consider the costs of all the other equipment, the snake, future costs for energy, food, probably vet etc this doesn’t seem an enormous amount for the initial investment if it lets you add so much more enrichment for your reptile…
So, I did it again, writing a wall of text, explaining my reasoning, providing examples, teaching (I hope you don’t think of it as preaching) |
I generally prefer to offer the succinct version first, if possible, and then separately dive deeper into the details. This way, a reader can pick or choose where they want to start at, while still providing that information. This is harder to do when I'm tired, however, so in those cases I just provide the most relevant stuff and expand later if asked. XD
I have written my fair share of academic papers in the past, and they are split up into different sections by relevance, with an introduction and conclusion, so that the body may be skipped over if time or attention is an issue. Some portions may not be relevant for certain audiences (such as portions discussing methods if you aren't a researcher yourself), and can be skipped without hindering the usefulness of the rest of the paper.
As far as "why not":
Tubs are cheap, and easy to come by. You don't have to wait days, weeks, or even months for an enclosure to be shipped to you or to finish building your own. You can just pop on down to the local Walmart or Target and pick up a tub. From there, all you really need to do is drill/melt a few air holes and stick a heating pad/tape and thermostat, and it's most of the way done.
Those tubs can then be modified to have lots of cover and even climbing (for a small enough snake). If you turn it to the side, you can even make it front-opening. Since it's plastic, it is supremely easy to modify in all kinds of ways, so you can go pretty much vanilla or outfit it to fit your needs.
So, not only is cost a factor, but accessibility and convenience is also a factor.
Now, again. I will argue that certain species should not be housed in tubs as they simply don't offer enough room, and they may outgrow a tub very quickly. Such as retics or Burms. But a species that gets large, but grows slowly? Can easily be started out in a tub at first and upgraded later. This can reduce the housing costs, and instead of putting out hundreds of dollars from the get-go, you can spend several years saving up or putting together a more elaborate set up.
Tubs are also easier to move than vivs, especially if those vivs cannot be broken down. Not
usually an issue, but can be. This is why I start out with tubs at first, just in case I need to move around. This is also why Animal Plastics is my go-to viv choice, since their cages can be broken down quite easily.
By saying "no tubs ever, only vivs" you putting a lot of unnecessary restrictions on people. Why should it matter what they're using to house their animals, if those animals needs are still being met? Just because someone gets a viv, doesn't necessarily mean that the snake now magically has all their needs being met.
A keeper that won't provide for their snakes isn't going to provide more care in a viv vs a tub, and a viv doesn't inherently mean better unless those extra steps are taken to ensure that viv also meets the animal's needs.
Now, my overall argument here is: you cannot base whether an enclosure is sufficient or not simply based off of the material. You must also look at the set up. A viv can be just as bad as a tub, with poor planning.
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