Dwarf Burmese Pythons - Page 2

Krj-2501 · 07-29-17, 11:31 PM

I am guessing you have not heard - On April 7. 2017 - the U.S. Court of Appeals give their ruling which agreed/sided with the USARK's claim - that the Lacey Act CAN NOT be used to ban/prohibit the interstate travel and/or selling & shipping of "injurious species" - like the Brumese Python. Which the Lacey Act was being used for to prohibit/ban the interstate travel/sell of the following species of Constrictors - Burmese Pythons, Reticulated Pythons, African Rock Pythons, and Anacondas.

The lifting of the interstate travel & sell of these large constrictors between the states(where legal) resumed on May 29, 2017.
So basically at this time - it is perfectly legal to ship Brumese Pythons across state lines, once again. The only exceptions at this time is - if the owning of Burmese Pythons is restricted or prohibited(by state or local laws) in your state. Which they are not in state I live in.

Krj-2501 · 07-30-17, 12:25 AM

Here is a few Articles to read on this.

Grammar Matters As 3 Judge Panel Lifts Python Ban

More on the Lawsuit | USARK

SSSSnakes · 07-30-17, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krj-2501

I am guessing you have not heard - On April 7. 2017 - the U.S. Court of Appeals give their ruling which agreed/sided with the USARK's claim - that the Lacey Act CAN NOT be used to ban/prohibit the interstate travel and/or selling & shipping of "injurious species" - like the Brumese Python. Which the Lacey Act was being used for to prohibit/ban the interstate travel/sell of the following species of Constrictors - Burmese Pythons, Reticulated Pythons, African Rock Pythons, and Anacondas.

The lifting of the interstate travel & sell of these large constrictors between the states(where legal) resumed on May 29, 2017.
So basically at this time - it is perfectly legal to ship Brumese Pythons across state lines, once again. The only exceptions at this time is - if the owning of Burmese Pythons is restricted or prohibited(by state or local laws) in your state. Which they are not in state I live in.

Thank you. I did not hear about this. Nice to know. Unfortunately my state still bans them, NY. Always learning something new.

Scubadiver59 · 07-30-17, 10:06 AM

No guns and no snakes...I'd move.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSSSnakes

Thank you. I did not hear about this. Nice to know. Unfortunately my state still bans them, NY. Always learning something new.

SSSSnakes · 07-30-17, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scubadiver59

No guns and no snakes...I'd move.

I am moving to Ca.

Krj-2501 · 07-30-17, 12:56 PM

Yes - New York state pretty much bans - private ownership of Any venomous or injurious reptile. This includes all of the following - Elapids, Viperids, venomous colubrids, Helodermatids lizards, Larger Boid constrictors (i.e. - Brums, Retics, African rocks & Anacondas), larger monitor lizards (i.e - Nile, Asian water, Crocodile, White Throat & Black Throats).

Seeing how restrictive certain states on reptile keepers/breeders makes me glad - that I live in a state like North Carolina - which no such state wide restrictions on owning reptiles. While there are certain cities(like Charlotte) and counties in this state which may mirror New York's state laws restricting owning reptiles. In Charlotte's case - their wording is a bit different concerning large constrictors and large monitors - limits by size (over 50 lbs) not specific species. So based on the letter of Charlotte's law - while normal Burms and Retics may be prohibited - but it is still permitted to own a dwarf or half dwarf burm or retic (so long as it stays under 50 lbs -as a full grown adult).

SSSSnakes · 07-30-17, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krj-2501

Yes - New York state pretty much bans - private ownership of Any venomous or injurious reptile. This includes all of the following - Elapids, Viperids, venomous colubrids, Helodermatids lizards, Larger Boid constrictors (i.e. - Brums, Retics, African rocks & Anacondas), larger monitor lizards (i.e - Nile, Asian water, Crocodile, White Throat & Black Throats).

Seeing how restrictive certain states on reptile keepers/breeders makes me glad - that I live in a state like North Carolina - which no such state wide restrictions on owning reptiles. While there are certain cities(like Charlotte) and counties in this state which may mirror New York's state laws restricting owning reptiles. In Charlotte's case - their wording is a bit different concerning large constrictors and large monitors - limits by size (over 50 lbs) not specific species. So based on the letter of Charlotte's law - while normal Burms and Retics may be prohibited - but it is still permitted to own a dwarf or half dwarf burm or retic (so long as it stays under 50 lbs -as a full grown adult).

I performed educational snake shows for over 35 years. I had licenses for venomous, large, native and endangered / threatened snakes, so I could and did keep a lot of snakes that other people could not. There are always ways to get around laws legally. And being I had the licenses, the DEC and law enforcement would give me snakes when they confiscated them from illegal collections.

Scubadiver59 · 07-30-17, 01:44 PM

Nah...still no guns allowed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSSSnakes

I am moving to Ca.

Krj-2501 · 07-30-17, 08:30 PM

Quote:

I performed educational snake shows for over 35 years. I had licenses for venomous, large, native and endangered / threatened snakes, so I could and did keep a lot of snakes that other people could not. There are always ways to get around laws legally. And being I had the licenses, the DEC and law enforcement would give me snakes when they confiscated them from illegal collections.

Good to know.

Still I am glad to being living in a state that does not require such licenses or permits. As I doubt these licenses are easy for the average reptile keeper to get.

Krj-2501 · 08-02-17, 01:24 AM

I have being looking for breeders who breed Dwarf and/or Half Dwarf Burms.

So far I have only found one breeder (Bob Clark) that still breeds pure progschai Burms.

And I have yet to find one which still breeds half dwarfs. Although I have been told they do exist. But it may be a buyer beware type situation. As a lot of the "Half Dwarf" Burms may in fact just be small/sub-adult mainland Burms which people are claiming are Half Dwarfs.

dannybgoode · 08-02-17, 02:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krj-2501

I have being looking for breeders who breed Dwarf and/or Half Dwarf Burms.

So far I have only found one breeder (Bob Clark) that still breeds pure progschai Burms.

And I have yet to find one which still breeds half dwarfs. Although I have been told they do exist. But it may be a buyer beware type situation. As a lot of the "Half Dwarf" Burms may in fact just be small/sub-adult mainland Burms which people are claiming are Half Dwarfs.

Imo if you can get a pure blood line then go for it. If you want a dwarf you may as well get a known quantity.

That said if you can find a pure locality SD retic I'd take that over a dwarf burm - more active, less flighty and hidey. SD retics just act like they're a 20' snake - they don't know they're only a few feet - whereas dwarf burms have quite a different temperament to their larger counterpart.

I guess this is because genetically an SD retic is the same as a mainland - they are all Python reticulatus just some are smaller given food availability for their location. However bivittatus and bivittatus progschai are separate sub species.

Krj-2501 · 08-02-17, 12:44 PM

Quote:

I guess this is because genetically an SD retic is the same as a mainland - they are all Python reticulatus just some are smaller given food availability for their location.

The reticulated Python has 3 known sub-species at this time. The full sized mainland sub-species - P. r. reticulatus. Where as the other two sup-species - P. r. jampeanus (Jampea/Kayaudi dwarf retics) & P. r. saputrai (Selayer retics). It has been suggested that the SD forms may in fact represent another unknown sub-species or even a couple of sub-species.

The reason most dwarf & SD retics get much larger in captivity than in the wild is that they are often hybridized with the mainland retics - to produce the various morphs. Notice how many morphs there are of the dwarf and SD forms. It is very VERY hard to find a pure SD retic.

Quote:

That said if you can find a pure locality SD retic I'd take that over a dwarf burm - more active, less flighty and hidey. SD retics just act like they're a 20' snake - they don't know they're only a few feet - whereas dwarf burms have quite a different temperament to their larger counterpart.

To that I say - I have heard(from people who have had them) of some SD Retics which are also flighty, with a nasty disposition(hiss, strike, bite). And I have heard of captive bred pure Dwarf Brums being described as "puppy dog" tame. So as we have already discussed - it's likely more about the individual snake & owner than it is the species or sub-species as a whole.

dannybgoode · 08-02-17, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krj-2501

The reticulated Python has 3 known sub-species at this time. The full sized mainland sub-species - P. r. reticulatus. Where as the other two sup-species - P. r. jampeanus (Jampea/Kayaudi dwarf retics) & P. r. saputrai (Selayer retics). It has been suggested that the SD forms may in fact represent another unknown sub-species or even a couple of sub-species.

The reason most dwarf & SD retics get much larger in captivity than in the wild is that they are often hybridized with the mainland retics - to produce the various morphs. Notice how many morphs there are of the dwarf and SD forms. It is very VERY hard to find a pure SD retic.

To that I say - I have heard(from people who have had them) of some SD Retics which are also flighty, with a nasty disposition(hiss, strike, bite). And I have heard of captive bred pure Dwarf Brums being described as "puppy dog" tame. So as we have already discussed - it's likely more about the individual snake & owner than it is the species or sub-species as a whole.

Interesting re the sub species of reticulatus - thank you.

I'm lucky - my Madu is F1 from WC parents and I have been offered a female from the same breeder when he has one available. He won't exceed 6'. Temperament wise he's ace - not at all bitey or flighty. Very food orientated but doesn't show any propensity to strike.

I only know of two people in the UK with pure Madu lines though so yes they're not common. I will be the third

Krj-2501 · 08-02-17, 10:12 PM

Quote:

I'm lucky - my Madu is F1 from WC parents and I have been offered a female from the same breeder when he has one available. He won't exceed 6'. Temperament wise he's ace - not at all bitey or flighty. Very food orientated but doesn't show any propensity to strike.

I only know of two people in the UK with pure Madu lines though so yes they're not common. I will be the third

Congrats.

I have not seen that any Madu SD retics (in the states) - so far. Here in the states - the only pure SD I have seen are the Kalatoa SD. But then Madu and Kalatoa are neighboring islands. So it is possible they are both refer to the same locality.

dannybgoode · 08-02-17, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krj-2501

Congrats.

I have not seen that any Madu SD retics (in the states) - so far. Here in the states - the only pure SD I have seen are the Kalatoa SD. But then Madu and Kalatoa are neighboring islands. So it is possible they are both refer to the same locality.

True Madu stay smaller than Kalatoa but yes undoubtedly some crossing and mis-naming takes place. To give you an idea of how small they are mine is just over 1yo and is not more than 2'.