Dwarf Burmese Pythons

Krj-2501 · 07-26-17, 03:08 PM

I have been researching information about the Dwarf Burmese Pythons (Python bivittatus progschai).

My main question is about it's general temperament and pet potential. I have read about their reported nasty dispositions. But I have also seen comments from breeders and owners - which have stated that those "nasty dispositions" are mainly found in the wild caught foundation stock. And that the captive bred individuals, once acclimated tend to be much calmer, more similar to mainland Brums in their overall temperament. So which is one is the truth?

**Minkness** · 07-26-17, 11:29 PM

As much as I wish there was an easy answer to this, there just isn't. While the species as a whole may be one way or another, these guys are still a bit new and have alot of captive breeding before they will take down like a normal cbb burm. That being said, it most likely boils down to the individual snake and how their owner handles them. I have been able to handle snakes deemed down right nasty by some people, several of which have come home with me to never once tag me. But other snakes deemed chill by one person, may act different with another. So for now, with such a young species in the pet trade, best bet is either to steer clear or take the chance but be prepared.

Krj-2501 · 07-27-17, 01:46 AM

That makes sense.

It is not really that young of species though. According to research I have found - they were first imported in to U.S. back in 2003. And been bred since then - although likely in fairly limited numbers.

At present time - I am not planning to get one, right now any way . As I am in a situation where I am planning on moving in a few months. So I still have time to research them before I getting one.

While I am concern about their general temperament. The main reason I looking into the Dwarf Burms - has to do more with their more manageable size. I like the basic look of Burmese Pythons. But I know that I am definitely ready to care for a 10+ foot, 50+ lbs, rabbit eating snake for the next 20-30 years. In addition- all the information I have found out about the Dwarf Burms (internet research and talking to breeders) suggests that they stay roughly the size of Ball Python(for males - 4-5 ft) or average size Columbian Boa (for females 5.5-7 ft.) range. Which is a size range I am confident that I can manage successfully.

dave himself · 07-27-17, 02:03 AM

Mink is right in everything she says mate. Although my experience with dwarf burms is very limited , I can tell you that the further these get from the first generation wild caught the more they're calming down. But as said it's more down to the individual snake, we've had a corn snake that had more attidute than our two burms and retic put together

. The best advice I can give you is to find a reliable breeder so you know your getting one that's as far removed from the first generation wild caught as possible

dannybgoode · 07-27-17, 05:14 AM

As for a 'pet' snake. If by that you mean one that you can handle a lot etc then there are better choices.

Whilst they may certainly calm down in terms of defensiveness they are shy snakes that prefer to hide a lot so regardless of whether an individual snake is nippy or not it is unfair (imo) to subject them to lots of handing as they really do not care for it.

Krj-2501 · 07-27-17, 02:11 PM

I get that one should never take the temperament of an individual animal as being typical of it's species. When looking at the "typical" temperament of a species or sub-species - you need experiences with lots individual animals - to make those kind of generalizations.

At present - I have 5 ackie monitors, and 3 ball pythons. each with a different personality. While I have a few individuals(3 ackies, 2 balls) which have fairly "typical" personalities for their species. I also have a couple of individuals(2 ackies, 1 ball) which seem to have a bit of a "nasty" disposition - at least when it comes to handling.

But since the Dwarf Burmese - seem to have better personalities with captive bred individuals. Who has been breeding them the longest?

**Minkness** · 07-27-17, 06:14 PM

While 2003 may seem like a long time ago, in relation to breeding, it's not that long. True burms have been in the domestic pet trade since the 60s (I think).

Wish I could help you with the search for a breeder, but I only ever see them pop up occasionally on faunaclassifieds.

dave himself · 07-28-17, 12:42 AM

I'm Ireland

The 2 dwarfs that I had the pleasure to see and handle came from the Hamm show in Germany, and I think they came from a European breeder, but I'll let you know tomorrow for definite just incase it was a breeder is from your side of the pond

Krj-2501 · 07-28-17, 08:43 AM

Quote:

While 2003 may seem like a long time ago, in relation to breeding, it's not that long. True burms have been in the domestic pet trade since the 60s (I think).

I see your point. By that comparison - Dwarf Burms are still fairly young to the trade, then.

And I bet the two-three year ban on interstate sales on all Burms - did not help increase their numbers, either. In fact it may have reduced the number people breeding them. Thankfully that foolish ban has been outlawed/over turned.

Scubadiver59 · 07-28-17, 09:07 AM

Shame...ostracizing the little folk because of the problem with their bigger cousins!

This talk about dwarf burms--I didn't even know they existed--now has me wanting at least one dwarf retic and now one dwarf burm. Thanks a lot y'all, like I needed any more snakes!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krj-2501

I see your point. By that comparison - Dwarf Burms are still fairly young to the trade, then.

And I bet the two-three year ban on interstate sales on all Burms - did not help increase their numbers, either. In fact it may have reduced the number people breeding them. Thankfully that foolish ban has been outlawed/over turned.

Krj-2501 · 07-28-17, 02:27 PM

In either case (Dwarf burm or Dwarf Retic) - it's best to make sure you are getting pure(100%) Dwarf. Sometimes people will claim it is a Dwarf, when the actual parentage is actually only 50-75% Dwarf - the other 25-50 % is the larger mainland counterparts.

So you end up with a 1/2 or 3/4 dwarf specimen which will grow larger than a typical dwarf but still be bit smaller than the typical mainland version. This is especially a problem with the dwarf & super dwarf retics - as they have been around much longer. And often are seen in various morphs - as most of morphs of the dwarf and super dwarf retics are the result of crossing mainlands (P.r.reticulatus). The result - people end up with 14-16+ foot (so called) dwarf retics.

With half (50%) Dwarf Burms - they usually won't get more than 9-10 feet (for very large female).

dannybgoode · 07-28-17, 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krj-2501

In either case (Dwarf burm or Dwarf Retic) - it's best to make sure you are getting pure(100%) Dwarf. Sometimes people will claim it is a Dwarf, when the actual parentage is actually only 50-75% Dwarf - the other 25-50 % is the larger mainland counterparts.

So you end up with a 1/2 or 3/4 dwarf specimen which will grow larger than a typical dwarf but still be bit smaller than the typical mainland version. This is especially a problem with the dwarf & super dwarf retics - as they have been around much longer. And often are seen in various morphs - as most of morphs of the dwarf and super dwarf retics are the result of crossing mainlands (P.r.reticulatus). The result - people end up with 14-16+ foot (so called) dwarf retics.

With half (50%) Dwarf Burms - they usually won't get more than 9-10 feet (for very large female).

Couldn't agree more - the tricky bit is finding true dwarf localities. True dwarf Burmese are relatively easy to find in England. True SD retics much harder. I have a true Madu and the breeder is the only one currently in England although I do know someone else now with an adult pair.

Trouble is most people buy them to cross with mainland to get the morphs etc and we are in danger of losing the true localities. Luckily there are just enough people willing to work with them to keep some available. I'll be getting a female just as soon as one is available to go with my male.

Krj-2501 · 07-29-17, 12:36 PM

So far - my search for Dwarf/Half Dwarf Burm breeders - here in the states is very limited - to just a few breeders.

But the number of breeder claiming to have Dwarf/Super Dwarf Retics, seems to be fairly common - all though at least 90 % of which are hybridized with the mainland/nominal form - usually between 25-75% dwarf/super dwarf. True 100% dwarf/super retics are very rare here is the states.

dannybgoode · 07-29-17, 03:04 PM

They're rare here too. I was lucky to find a good breeder and mine is an F1 from WC parents. The breeder will hold me back a female or alternately there's another chap who has a pair from Germany so could get an unrelated female maybe.

SSSSnakes · 07-29-17, 10:03 PM

Your in the states, so keep in mind, you'll have to find the snake for sale in your state. Dwarf or main land it's illegal to take burms across state lines.