Your view of the reptile hobby

[Mikoh4792]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

I find it adorable when people who have no clue what their talking about try and come off like they do.

I know a handful of people (including myself) that were at a local council meeting and got the proposed all out exotic ban to convert to a 2 meter rule for snakes. That's not everything but it certainly proved your theory wrong.

Glad to know you're only willing to complain about it over the internet and not actually do anything about it.

Forgive me for my assumptions, but is this where you get your "do something about it" attitude? If so why bring that mindset over to this thread? It has no relevance.

There are no council meetings for " make them stop producing ball pythons morphs!"

Again, the ball python craze is a trivial annoyance. I'm going to ask you to stop bothering me about taking action. I call THAT moot.

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by Mikoh4792

Forgive me for my assumptions, but is this where you get your "do something about it" attitude? If so why bring that mindset over to this thread? It has no relevance.

There are no council meetings for " make them stop producing ball pythons morphs!"

Again, the ball python craze is a trivial annoyance. I'm going to ask you to stop bothering me about taking action. I call THAT moot.

You looked in the wrong thread.

[Mikoh4792]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

You looked in the wrong thread.

I know it was in a different thread, but I'm asking you if you got that mindset from the fact that you are one of those people who "did something about it". That's why I said forgive me for assuming.

And if that is where you got that mindset, I was making my previous comment in response to that fact.

[CosmicOwl]

I don't think there is inherently a problem with ball pythons being really popular. In my opinion, the problem is more that people are buying BPs just for the sake of breeding morphs. I find it shallow for people to latch onto whatever is the new morph, and constantly sell/trade their snakes. To me, it's a negative aspect of the community. Breeding BP's isn't itself bad, just becoming obsessed with attaining the latest morphs and treating animals like objects.

[lady_bug87]

Originally Posted by psychocircus

Sorry this is a little off topic, but it goes back to the "general" exotics that were mentioned.

Lady bug, how do you feel about captive animals that are bred in part because they are endangered in the wild? If these animals are "weaker" than their wild counterparts, then is it selfish to raise them in captivity?

Would it be better to let the species go extinct because they are not truly thriving in captivity? After all, there are still other motives in keeping those captive animals.

I feel very strongly for conservation. But there are a lot of zoos that do things wrong. I'm lucky to have visited zoos and serpntariums in 3 different countries. Some good some bad,

The zoos that work with wildlife conservation trying to replenish natural populations, or strive to keep animals in captivity that would otherwise be extinct usually do a good job of ethical care, they have the resources the private sector does not. The ones that don't (SeaWorld for example) should have licenses revoked.

So its clear for you mikoh

I don't lump captivity for pleasure in with captivity for conservation. For me the context of why the animal is in captivity holds just as much ethical weight as the care itself.

[psychocircus]

Originally Posted by lady_bug87

I feel very strongly for conservation. But there are a lot of zoos that do things wrong. I'm lucky to have visited zoos and serpntariums in 3 different countries. Some good some bad,

The zoos that work with wildlife conservation trying to replenish natural populations, or strive to keep animals in captivity that would otherwise be extinct usually do a good job of ethical care, they have the resources the private sector does not. The ones that don't (SeaWorld for example) should have licenses revoked.

So its clear for you mikoh

I don't lump captivity for pleasure in with captivity for conservation. For me the context of why the animal is in captivity holds just as much ethical weight as the care itself.

But by the notion of what you have mentioned in previous posts, what is the point of preventing an animal from becoming extinct, just to keep it in captivity (for the ones that are maintained in captivity, rather than bred to release the young)? Most of these are kept in "zoo" settings. If they only remain captives, is that not selfish and for human purpose only?

Not disagreeing with you, just playing devil's advocate based on what's been said so far in this thread.

[lady_bug87]

Originally Posted by psychocircus

But by the notion of what you have mentioned in previous posts, what is the point of preventing an animal from becoming extinct, just to keep it in captivity (for the ones that are maintained in captivity, rather than bred to release the young)? Most of these are kept in "zoo" settings. If they only remain captives, is that not selfish and for human purpose only?

Not disagreeing with you, just playing devil's advocate based on what's been said so far in this thread.

It depends sometimes conservation is needed to restore the balance of the ecosystem. For example dwindling bat populations affect insect numbers and in turn negatively impact other animals spreading disease.

Dwindling honey bee populations affect pollination and therefore food supplies for both animals and humans in the ecosystem are affected

[psychocircus]

Originally Posted by lady_bug87

It depends sometimes conservation is needed to restore the balance of the ecosystem. For example dwindling bat populations affect insect numbers and in turn negatively impact other animals spreading disease.

Dwindling honey bee populations affect pollination and therefore food supplies for both animals and humans in the ecosystem are affected

absolutely, I'm referring to species that only exist in captivity, but are extinct in the wild, the ones that will probably never be reintroduced into the wild.

[lady_bug87]

Originally Posted by psychocircus

absolutely, I'm referring to species that only exist in captivity, but are extinct in the wild, the ones that will probably never be reintroduced into the wild.

Ah OK.

I would still consider that conservation.

[Mikoh4792]

Originally Posted by lady_bug87

I feel very strongly for conservation. But there are a lot of zoos that do things wrong. I'm lucky to have visited zoos and serpntariums in 3 different countries. Some good some bad,

The zoos that work with wildlife conservation trying to replenish natural populations, or strive to keep animals in captivity that would otherwise be extinct usually do a good job of ethical care, they have the resources the private sector does not. The ones that don't (SeaWorld for example) should have licenses revoked.

So its clear for you mikoh

I don't lump captivity for pleasure in with captivity for conservation. For me the context of why the animal is in captivity holds just as much ethical weight as the care itself.

And with this I agree with you.

I was just trying to get a direct answer out of you before, and you have given a direct answer.

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by Mikoh4792

Forgive me for my assumptions, but is this where you get your "do something about it" attitude? If so why bring that mindset over to this thread? It has no relevance.

There are no council meetings for " make them stop producing ball pythons morphs!"

Again, the ball python craze is a trivial annoyance. I'm going to ask you to stop bothering me about taking action. I call THAT moot.

Nothing to do with council meetings.

You want to know why it's relevant? You created a thread about change. I have the mindset if you want something changed then go and do it. How is that irrelevant? You're literally being obtuse to try and make your point.

Oh that's right. It flies in the face of YOUR view so it can't possibly mean anything to a thread about change.

There's a LOT someone can do to "change" things. They just need to get off their lazy *** and do something about it. Don't need any meetings or discussions to do it. Just go out and raise a 1.1 of any "different" species and attempt to produce offspring.

It's straight forward.

[Mikoh4792]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

Nothing to do with council meetings.

You want to know why it's relevant? You created a thread about change. I have the mindset if you want something changed then go and do it. How is that irrelevant? You're literally being obtuse to try and make your point.

Oh that's right. It flies in the face of YOUR view so it can't possibly mean anything to a thread about change.

There's a LOT someone can do to "change" things. They just need to get off their lazy *** and do something about it. Don't need any meetings or discussions to do it. Just go out and raise a 1.1 of any "different" species and attempt to produce offspring.

It's straight forward.

Yes but what change is there to make? People like creating morphs, people like buying morphs. That's something that I "dislike" but there's nothing to change. Why do you keep telling me to do something about it? I can have a negative opinion about something, but if it's something people want to do who am I to try to stop that? Especially when it's not violating me in anyway?


And raising 1.1 of a species won't change anything. I am currently raising "1.1's" to keep as pets and have fun breeding in the future. Why recommend that as a method of change?

Oh that's right. It flies in the face of YOUR view so it can't possibly mean anything to a thread about change.

I don't know what this statement was for, but basically you are taking this very personally and seriously over my statement of dislike for the ball python morph craze. I was just giving my input to this thread's topic and you are the one dragging this trivial issue along.

It's straight forward

What's straight forward is the OP.

"What is your view on the reptile hobby as of now? What are some changes that would make it "better" in your opinion? In what direction would you like to see this hobby go?".

My input to that question was that I have distaste for the morph craze, particularly with ball pythons... but as I've explained time and time again, there's no real change to be done. That's just what people like right now. Has nothing to do with being lazy.

You confuse me because most of your posts are filled with ad-hominem. What personal problems do you have with me?

You have the last word. I've taken the time to try to get you to understand my points. If you don't get it by now, you won't get it anytime soon. You win, I lose.

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by Mikoh4792

Yes but what change is there to make? People like creating morphs, people like buying morphs. That's something that I "dislike" but there's nothing to change. Why do you keep telling me to do something about it? I can have a negative opinion about something, but if it's something people want to do who am I to try to stop that? Especially when it's not violating me in anyway?


And raising 1.1 of a species won't change anything. I am currently raising "1.1's" to keep as pets and have fun breeding in the future. Why recommend that as a method of change?




I don't know what this statement was for, but basically you are taking this very personally and seriously over my statement of dislike for the ball python morph craze. I was just giving my input to this thread's topic and you are the one dragging this trivial issue along.




What's straight forward is the OP.

"What is your view on the reptile hobby as of now? What are some changes that would make it "better" in your opinion? In what direction would you like to see this hobby go?".

My input to that question was that I have distaste for the morph craze, particularly with ball pythons... but as I've explained time and time again, there's no real change to be done. That's just what people like right now. Has nothing to do with being lazy.

You confuse me because most of your posts are filled with ad-hominem. What personal problems do you have with me?

You have the last word. I've taken the time to try to get you to understand my points. If you don't get it by now, you won't get it anytime soon. You win, I lose.

The bold states you asked how the hobby can change for the "better".

The bold underline states that there's "no real change to be done."

You can't have it both ways. You aren't open to actual answers that differ from your view because you continually tell people that certain things aren't relevant when they are.

Case in point in a previous post you said my mindset to change something that someone dislikes is irrelevant when you made a thread about change. It makes no sense because in fact if we're discussing change then yes my point is/was relevant.

It's like beating my head against a wall here.

If someone dislikes something but doesn't want to change it then shut up and keep it to yourself. No one wants to here babbling if you're not going to do something about it. It becomes pointless drivel.

[Mikoh4792]

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

The bold states you asked how the hobby can change for the "better".

The bold underline states that there's "no real change to be done."

You can't have it both ways. You aren't open to actual answers that differ from your view because you continually tell people that certain things aren't relevant when they are.

Case in point in a previous post you said my mindset to change something that someone dislikes is irrelevant when you made a thread about change. It makes no sense because in fact if we're discussing change then yes my point is/was relevant.

It's like beating my head against a wall here.

If someone dislikes something but doesn't want to change it then shut up and keep it to yourself. No one wants to here babbling if you're not going to do something about it. It becomes pointless drivel.

Sharing my view is one part of the question. My answer doesn't need to encompass all aspects of all three questions. This isn't an assignment. It's just an opener for conversation.

Giving my view does answer the first question, it doesn't go against anything to say that there is no real change to be done. That's just a change I'd like to see.

You see it as pointless, that's fine. You are entitled to your opinion, as am I.

It's like beating my head against a wall here.

I feel the same way.

[Aaron_S]

Originally Posted by Mikoh4792

Sharing my view is one part of the question. My answer doesn't need to encompass all aspects of all three questions. This isn't an assignment. It's just an opener for conversation.

Giving my view does answer the first question, it doesn't go against anything to say that there is no real change to be done. That's just a change I'd like to see.

You see it as pointless, that's fine. You are entitled to your opinion, as am I.




I feel the same way.

Exactly.

You would like to see a change. Why not make that change yourself? This has been my whole point and you have claimed for pages that you didn't want change.

Quit flip flopping. It's fine to have an opinion but because someone doesn't agree don't back pedal.

This has been my point the entire time.

Before I said a word this was very much a "I dislike the morphs blah blah blah" thread. Sure dislike it. That's fine but no one should be rude about it and call everyone interested in it a "pokemon collector". It's ignorant to assume someone's mentality.

Further, my point was to all those people who dislike seeing all those morphs at shows to stop whining about it on the internet and just do something about it.

For example, I wanted to see more rough scale sand boas so I went and bought a few pairs. I didn't complain that I didn't see any. I found them and bought them.