Fire bellied toads as feeders.

[WhipPoorWill]

Hi everybody,
I recently acquired a young (I assume it's a hatchling) eastern hognose, and I was planning on switching him over to pinkies, but I've decided to stick to feeding him toads/frogs. Seeing as it may be rather difficult to catch wild toads in the winter, I was wondering if breeding firebellied toads for feeders would be a viable decision. Any comments/suggestions?

[GarterPython]

I am guessing they are not because on the wiki page for them it says they carry toxins

[Snickers]

I agree. Amphibians with bright colors are usually a warning that they posses and can secrete toxins. A couple of snakes have developed an immunity to the toxin, but hogs aren't 1 of them.

[WhipPoorWill]

Oh, I was under the impression that all toads were poisonous

[infernalis]

The only issue with feeding wild toads is the parasite loads.

Even though this chart depicts a frog, Toads lay their eggs in the same water, and their tadpoles co-exist with frog tadpoles, and the flukes don't care who the host is.

[Gatorhunter1231]

Just because they are toad eaters does not mean they can eat any kind of toad. They do not eat fire-belly toads in the wild. They may not be able to handle fire-belly toad toxins. Somethings can eat toads but die in minutes if they eat a cane toad. I would research toxins either way.

[infernalis]

Originally Posted by Gatorhunter1231

Just because they are toad eaters does not mean they can eat any kind of toad. They do not eat fire-belly toads in the wild. They may not be able to handle fire-belly toad toxins. Somethings can eat toads but die in minutes if they eat a cane toad. I would research toxins either way.

Many, many Goanna have fallen to the toad.

[WhipPoorWill]

Oh, okay. Sorry for the newbish question. I've never had a snake before.

[Gatorhunter1231]

Better to ask then not to
Makes me want to look up the kinds of toxins fire-bellies have.

[StudentoReptile]

Remember folks, not all toads (or amphibians for that matter) are the same.

There are the common "terrestrial" toads that most of us are familiar with in the Bufo genus (southern, American, Fowlers, cane/marine toads, etc.): i.e. the dry, warty kind with the carotid glands behind the eyes.

Then you have the popular fire-bellied toads (genus Bombina). And there are other genera as well.

It is true that all are toxic in their own way, but not all toxins are the same. For instance, our American hognose snakes prey upon Bufo sp naturally all the time. But the toxic secretions of a fire-belly are completely different. So in agreement with everyone else, indeed you would NOT feed these to any snake.

I recently had a similar discussion on another forum when someone asked if Cuban treefrogs were okay to be eaten by turtles. It happens that the mucus on their skin is mildly toxic. Obviously, this is a little different than the toxins of say, a poison arrow frog which acquires the toxicity from its insect prey.

[DragonsEye]

In their native habitat, firebelly toads are preyed upon by predators that suffer no ill effects from their toxins. American hognoses, not being from that habitat, very well may not have any immunity to those same toxins. As others have said, I would not chance it.

Btw, side note of trivia here, scientifically there is no such thing as a toad ... they are all frogs.

[Gregg M]

Originally Posted by WhipPoorWill

Oh, okay. Sorry for the newbish question. I've never had a snake before.

For someone who never had a snake before, you sure did pick the wrong species to start with. They ae notorious for not being good captives and even the most experienced hognose keepers do not have an easy time with them.

If you want that animals to live, I would try to get it feeding on pinkies. Use a mashed up green tree frog to scent the pinkies. They are not easy to convert.
You have a hatchling so it will be easier to get it on rodents than it would be to get an adult on rodents.

On to the original question... No, firebelly toads would not be a suitable diet. If you are going to breed toads, why not just breed Woodhouse, Fowlers or American toads? They are actually far easier to breed than firebellies.

[WhipPoorWill]

Well, I didn't necessarily choose this species. My dad caught it, set up an aquarium, and gave it to me. So, I've decided to keep him.

On the subject of pinkies, I've read that they cause liver disease is this species. Is this true?

[jaleely]

Hogs are hard sometimes, but once you get them eating something they like, they are great. You can scent pinkies with frogs, or fish, or other things and offer it to the snake to see what he'll take.
I have one who only wants mice, and one who only wants fish *rolls eyes* lol

[Roadtrash]

I seem to remember that it likes fingers as well.