S.b. 310

[kernel]

S.B. 310 passed..... At this rate, the entire reptile industry is going to be shut down. We HAVE to do something!

[CDN_Blood]

Should live animals really be an industry in the first place? I've said it before and I'll say it again; if people were more responsible and dedicated to their charges, this wouldn't be an issue, but since so many people are overproducing so many different reptiles, they've gotten to the point that they're considered disposable, so yeah, of course that is going to lead to problems and that's exactly why laws like this come into play. That's my 2 cents - over 'n out

[jaleely]

Yeah, I'm a hypocrite, because I take care of exotic pets, but in all reality I disagree with them being imported and sold, bred for colors despite genetic issues, etc., etc.
Kind of sucks, but there should not be snakes at all in every single dirty old petstore to be puchased by a squalling kid throwing a tantrum and then given to the pound a few months later.
As for the ones I have...If i have to get a license or something some day to keep them, fine.

[exwizard]

Originally Posted by jaleely

Yeah, I'm a hypocrite, because I take care of exotic pets, but in all reality I disagree with them being imported and sold, bred for colors despite genetic issues, etc., etc.
Kind of sucks, but there should not be snakes at all in every single dirty old petstore to be puchased by a squalling kid throwing a tantrum and then given to the pound a few months later.
As for the ones I have...If i have to get a license or something some day to keep them, fine.

Im not going there. I see a potential debate coming so I will avoid it now.

[Jay]

Originally Posted by exwizard

Im not going there. I see a potential debate coming so I will avoid it now.

You just went there, why would you reply with no intentions.

[kernel]

Originally Posted by CDN_Blood

Should live animals really be an industry in the first place? I've said it before and I'll say it again; if people were more responsible and dedicated to their charges, this wouldn't be an issue, but since so many people are overproducing so many different reptiles, they've gotten to the point that they're considered disposable, so yeah, of course that is going to lead to problems and that's exactly why laws like this come into play. That's my 2 cents - over 'n out

I could really get into it with you here, but I won't. I don't feel like it right now and I don't want to create a mess for Wayne to clean up. I'll let someone else argue with you.

Originally Posted by jaleely

Yeah, I'm a hypocrite, because I take care of exotic pets, but in all reality I disagree with them being imported and sold, bred for colors despite genetic issues, etc., etc.
Kind of sucks, but there should not be snakes at all in every single dirty old petstore to be puchased by a squalling kid throwing a tantrum and then given to the pound a few months later.
As for the ones I have...If i have to get a license or something some day to keep them, fine.

I wouldn't have such a big problem if they didn't make the permits so outrageous and didn't require $250,000 insurance PER animal. Read the bill and you'll see just how ridiculous it is. Laws, Acts, and Legislation

[GarterPython]

Does anybody have the sight that talks about it. I know I am in Canada but I would still like to read it.

[exwizard]

Originally Posted by jay0133

You just went there, why would you reply with no intentions.

Because I disagree and for the following reason.

Originally Posted by kernel

I could really get into it with you here, but I won't. I don't feel like it right now and I don't want to create a mess for Wayne to clean up. I'll let someone else argue with you.

I have such a tendency to get drawn into debates that I hate so that was the best reply I could come up with.

[shaunyboy]

as long as imported animals are transported CORRECTLY then i see NO problem with it

it gives natives a way to earn a living and feed their familys

it gives us access to snakes that are rare in captivity

imo,as long as its all done correctly,then there is no reason to stop it

cheers shaun

[jarich]

Originally Posted by kernel

I could really get into it with you here, but I won't. I don't feel like it right now and I don't want to create a mess for Wayne to clean up. I'll let someone else argue with you.



I wouldn't have such a big problem if they didn't make the permits so outrageous and didn't require $250,000 insurance PER animal. Read the bill and you'll see just how ridiculous it is. Laws, Acts, and Legislation

I think a lot of what this bill states is very reasonable. Its a much smarter bill than most of them I think, allowing for dwarf varieties to be excluded if they are under 12 feet. The insurance is not per animal, its for groups of five. That $200,000 is just insurance against the first five animals, and honestly if you have more than 5 giants, then I dont think the amount it costs for that much insurance should be a big deal. They almost explicitly state in the bill that its a way to make sure that people who dont have the money to keep them responsibly, dont have them.

The requirements for permitting seem valid, and fairly simple:
1) Register the snake/animal
2) Microchip it
3) Have two years experience with that type of animal
4) Have a working relationship with a vet
5) Make a plan for if the thing escapes
6) Prove financial responsibility by being able to provide insurance

I think thats perfectly reasonable. With the possible exception of the microchip, anyone with a giant should really have all that anyway. Microchips are cheap and simple, so no big deal. The insurance shouldn't cost more than about $1000-2000 a year or so, which again should not be a problem if someone has a snake that large anyway. I think this bill is a decent one, and a big improvement on most of the other ones Ive seen.

[CDN_Blood]

Exactly. These are responsible requirements and hopefully it will weed-out the garbage and turn keeping herps back into a sensible and responsible hobby instead of an all-too-easy to turn a buck industry where anyone with a fist full of cash can get anything, anywhere, anytime

[StudentoReptile]

I'll rehash some of my thoughts from another thread. While I philosophically agree with reasonable regulation in efforts to weed out the irresponsible keepers, in a realistic sense I do not think it can be or ever will be implemented in such a fashion that is fair to responsible keepers.

This bill in Ohio was fueled by the incident in Zanesville (which did involve reptiles of any kind), but the Animal Rights groups (HSUS and company) pressured state officials to include herps in it because quite frankly, that has been their goal all along. I don't see how it is fair to categories leopard geckos, ball pythons and tortoises along with lions, tigers, and bears.

It will do very little to weed out the negligent and irresponsible keepers. Just look at Florida. Even with a reasonable permitting system for the "Reptiles of Concern" (giant snakes and Nile monitors), many still disregarded it [this permitting system is now defunct, and the ROCs are now illegal to keep as of 2010). It only will make it harder for the already responsible reptile keepers to continue with their hobby.

I seriously can't believe that so many of you are agreeing with this so casually. If I lived in Ohio, I would be very upset: angry at ignorant lawmakers, disappointed at my fellow herpers in the community and discouraged at the future ramifications of this thing. The big picture is that many states look to others for ideas and direction. This is just the beginning. We've already seen other states try to pull this nonsense. Some were not as successful as Ohio, while others are still fighting with USARK.

I just don't see how people can say they don't want their rights taken away, but they want to see more regulation. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Another thing to keep in mind is that this is an election year, and that's another reason we're seeing a slight increase of ridiculous bills and laws being proposed over the past few months, not just in the reptile industry but in other markets as well. Nevertheless, S.B. 310 is not a good thing for the reptile community, and it will only get worse. Bills like this one are just a foot in the door for our enemy. If you think you're "safe" because you only keep geckos, or bearded dragons or turtles, or that its because you live in the state of _____, you are sadly mistaken. Sooner or later, this war will come knocking on your door.

[jarich]

The only herps in this bill are the giant snakes, longer than 12 feet, and venomous snakes. The venomous ones were already under regulation, so nothing new there. Which means in this case only those snakes longer than 12 feet are being regulated.

I suppose at the end of the day I am somewhat casual about it as it doesnt really seem to affect anyone that much in reality. Like you said, the law was already in place in Florida and many other places before, but is simply not enforced in most cases. These laws are just ways of giving the police a means to bust people when a bad situation catches their notice. Again, Im not saying similar laws are all reasonable in each of the states. There are some really stupid and overreaching ones in some other states. However, this one in particular seems well thought out and reasonable.

[youngster]

Originally Posted by jarich

The only herps in this bill are the giant snakes, longer than 12 feet, and venomous snakes. The venomous ones were already under regulation, so nothing new there. Which means in this case only those snakes longer than 12 feet are being regulated.

What are the guidelines for giants? Actually being over 12 feet or having the potential to go over 12 feet?

Sorry if this is answered but it's early and I don't wanna read that bill yet

[StudentoReptile]

The point is that people who are being responsible are being punished for the actions of the few that are not. I mean, just some of the wording is indicative of the ignorance of the bill's creators.

• Venomous Snakes - Like you said, they were already regulated. Putting them on this bill is redundant and just a knee-jerk reaction
• Komodo dragons? seriously, they're already endangered and under severe protection. Its not like the average private keeper can own one. Again, completely redundant to add this animal to the bill. It was just a large powerful dangerous reptile and that's why its on the bill.

I'm sure I'm going to get some flack for this, but whatever...it doesn't make sense to make a law that punishes everyone for the actions of a few. What you do is simply increase the penalties for negligent behavior.

Before I say more, something should be said about the different between public safety and occupational hazard. For that reason, I'll avoid using the analogy of gun ownership or driving. Let's use the example of lawn maintenance. If someone gets injured using a weed-eater, or a lawn mower, it doesn't make sense to suddenly make a law restricting the ownership and usage of lawn maintenance equipment. Most sensible people with adequate experience know how to operate such machines, and any injuries incurred are usually a result of occupational hazard. Can you imagine if you had to pay a permit fee every year and take an exam to qualify for owning and operating a lawn mower?

Again, this law is not as bad as it could have been (anyone read the original version when it was first proposed last year?). But it is the precedent it sets that is troubling. I mean, I've had giant snakes before. I'm responsible. I know what I'm doing. I'd be pissed if I suddenly had to start paying a permit fee and getting a new insurance plan for keeping animals I've been keeping my entire life just because some nutcase let loose some big cats and wolves. Why should I have to pay for someone else's mistakes?