Disease?

Carlie · 04-07-12, 12:20 PM

Okay, I need some help with my babies. I received 3 new snakes at the end of January. Shortly after receiving them 2 our of the 3 began regurging. I have got one back on track, the other is lined up for a necropsy. Since then 3 from my personal collection have begun regurging, as well as 2 who started refusing food (one of them being the 3rd snake I acquired). All of the ones who have begun regurging have been moved to smaller bins, and moved from the ones not regurging. Tho at the same time I just made a new mouse order around the same time as the reguges/refusals started (all but one, but she was shedding around the time of the regurge). Is this all just a big coincidence, the mice or a disease?

youngster · 04-07-12, 12:45 PM

QUARANTINE!!!!

Get them far apart from each other, it's not a coincidence.

BarelyBreathing · 04-07-12, 01:09 PM

Get a fecal done. And I'm sorry for your loss.

Rogue628 · 04-07-12, 03:57 PM

Not sure what could be causing it but I'd definitely quarantine them all away from one another and get some tests done. It's no coincidence.

Sorry for the loss of the one(s?) you lost.

Snakefood · 04-07-12, 04:03 PM

Sorry

I agree, get each and every one of them as far apart from each other as you can and get at least one to a vet with a written record of all the problems in your collection since this began

shaunyboy · 04-07-12, 04:06 PM

sorry for your loss

did you quarantine the 3 new snakes ?

as said,get a fecal test done

cheers shaun

a153fish · 04-07-12, 06:12 PM

Yeah, it's all guess work untill you see the Vet. It is important to note for anyone who has a snake regurge, that the snake should not be fed again for at least 10 days. This is to give the snake time to rebuild all of it's important acids, and flora, before you even try to feed them again. Just a note for anyone who may read this. Again temps can play a major role. Did you have any night time drop in temps, that might have contributed to the rash of regurges? I have had that happen to me before, when I was caught off guard, and fed the day before a cold front hit. Good luck with the remainder, and keep us posted on what you learn.

kernel · 04-08-12, 07:40 PM

1 or 2 regurgitations now then is normal, but for every snake in your collection to be regurgitating or refusing food means something is seriously wrong. Quarantine each snake away from each other and get the soonest vet appointment possible. Make sure they are reputable reptile vet as well.

Carlie · 04-09-12, 10:09 AM

The 3 new snakes were slightly quarantined. I trusted the women who I bought from, I purchased ones from her before which were fine, but obviously I shouldn't have let my guard down ! They were on a separate shelf in my rack system, they were always handles and fed last.
Temps have been fine, my apartment hasn't been below 80, and I have had them in the same rack for a long time, my thermostat never posed an issue, and my thermometers have 'recall', they never dipped below 81, and never went above 84.
I followed regurge protocol to a t. No food for 10 days, then a smaller than normal meal, slit and sprinkled with nutribac. Also after one regurges their aspen is removed and are put on paper towels for closer monitoring. They have been carefully examined, nothing out of the ordinary with them.
I have detailed feeding/refusal/regurge chats on my iHerp, and have monitored them closely, I have been doing everything right. I currently have 17 snakes, 5 are regurging, 3 are refusing, I have NEVER had issues before.

geckodog · 04-09-12, 10:12 AM

So sorry, put then in separate areas, because they need room, probably why they are regurtaiting

Lankyrob · 04-09-12, 10:57 AM

keeping them in the same rack system is NOT quarantining, they need to be in a separate room as far as possible from your current snakes - there probably is no point separating them now as any illness/disease they have brought with them it sound like has spread to your collection already.

Dakota314 · 04-09-12, 04:50 PM

I wouldn't say there is no point in separating now. I would still separate the sick ones from the healthy ones to prevent any more possible infections. Move them to a different room. The others may still get sick, but if you separate them now there is a chance that they won't. Wash your hands thoroughly between handling each snake.

How are you measuring/controling temps?

How old are the snakes that are refusing food? They may be refusing because it is breeding season.

Carlie · 04-10-12, 12:49 PM

I am bringing the sickest one to the vet this Thursday for testing. I hope I get something back.

I am measuring temps with an exxo terra probe thermometer in a bin above the heat pad, one on every length of heat tape. It is being controlled by a newtek themostat.

The snakes refusing food are yearlings, a mix of males and females.

Is there anything I can do to prepare for the testingÉ

**millertime89** · 04-10-12, 01:16 PM

I'm really sorry for your loss. Like others have said, get everyone in QT immediately, hopefully you'll be able to save some of your collection. I would also notify the woman you bought these 3 from and see if she's willing to help. At the very least she needs to be aware that 3 snakes from her collection were sick with something fatal. I would also cancel all in-progress purchases or sales and if you breed notify any customers.

zwhitman · 04-10-12, 05:21 PM

1st of all a little more info would be good. Are all of the snakes corns? Do any of the snakes have a midbody lump or any other symptoms?

If it were me, I would do the following...

1) Chuck every rodent in the freezer, bleach it, and order more from somewhere else.

2) Find a GOOD herp vet where you can bring the sick snake for exam, the dead snake for necropsy WITH histopathology of at least the GI tract and preferably all major organs, and fecal exams for all snakes.

3) Ask the breeder you got them from if she has seen anything like this in her collection. She may be one step ahead of you (if she will tell you).

4) Put the entire collection on lockdown. It does not have to be too late for your other snakes. All regurging or non-feeding snakes should be moved to a separate room. The rest of the collection/racks should be entirely emptied and cleaned with bleach. I would keep everyone on paper and use disposable hides and water bowls until you get this figured out. Get a box of latex gloves and designate a pair of gloves for every individual tub/cage. Deal with the sick snakes last and do not go back into the main snake room until you have showered and changed.

5) Identify "critical control points" such as the door knob to the snake room, the sink faucet handle, the temp gun, your shoes, etc and do everything you can to minimize cross contamination at these points.

6) Get an accurate gram scale and start weighing all snakes regularly. This will help you judge overall health as well as dehydration. I would also learn the "pinch test". Most snake species get much of their liquids from their food and regurging snakes can dehydrate quickly and may need to be soaked regularly. Keep in mind that this is stressful and should be kept short, luke warm, shallow, and closely supervised.

Your temps are marginal. Sick snakes need a wide temp gradient and a good basking spot to be able to boost their immune system. 84 probably isn't going to cut it.

In the future if you don't want this to happen again (and it will if you give it long enough) separate all incoming snakes in a separate room for at least 30 days and preferably longer(60-90). Run fecals ASAP. Sorry that you have to learn about this the hard way. Unfortunately this is the way most people start to quarantine. After they loose animals. Hopefully people will read this and take warning. Please keep us updated.