Ee ggads rats stink! (Switching mice to rats)

ZARADOZIA · 10-31-11, 03:49 PM

ok, so I waited an extra week before feeding Sasha because I am trying to switch her from mice to rats. Sasha laughed at me...I swear she did when I tried to get her to eat the rat. I was smart, and listened to all the advice I have read here and thawed a mouse as well.

So I do the zombie dance and Sasha is playing peek a boo. She sniffs the rat and kept looking for the mouse. So I laid the rat down and grabbed the mouse, then the rat so I am now holding the mouse and rat side by side with the tongs. She smells that mouse and she really wants that mouse. This goes on for about 6 minutes. Finally I get tired of holding them up and laid them down side by side. Sasha sniffs both, going back and forth many times and evnetualy picked up the mouse to eat it. She did not want the rat at all!

So as she is about to finish eating the mouse I grab the rat with the tongs and hold its head to her mouth so when she flexes her jaws she grabs a hold of it. She ate it too. But not much by choice...lol I was concerned that she might spit it out.

I have videos but don't have time to edit or post them right now. If you don't mind the unedited version I can post them after I finish cooking.

jarich · 10-31-11, 03:58 PM

Im curious as to why you are so motivated to switch to rats? With just the one snake it doesnt seem like you would be raising them, which is about the only reason I can think of for switching over (mice actually stink terribly compared to rats when you are raising them). I suppose in the long run rats might be cheaper, but again with only one snake that shouldnt be a big issue.

Valvaren · 10-31-11, 04:01 PM

I always thought the first rule to switched was to hold out and not let them have a mouse because that wasn't going to help at all. I also don't understand why you 'forced' it to eat a rat by putting it in its mouth unless you planned on feeding two meals at the same time.

Lankyrob · 10-31-11, 05:43 PM

BP's would need multiple prey items if fed mice whereas rats are that much bigger and will only need one or maybe two for an adult feed.

ZARADOZIA · 10-31-11, 07:20 PM

wow...what happened to Youngster's, Wayne's and my replies?

alessia55 · 10-31-11, 07:25 PM

my post disappeared too

**millertime89** · 10-31-11, 07:32 PM

it seems the forum has a problem, posts have disappeared elsewhere as well...

infernalis · 10-31-11, 07:38 PM

Looking into it... I found many missing posts.

exwizard · 10-31-11, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lankyrob

BP's would need multiple prey items if fed mice whereas rats are that much bigger and will only need one or maybe two for an adult feed.

I agree with this as well. Theres a whole lot more to rats than to mice so the meal would be more satisfying with rats as well.

shaunyboy · 10-31-11, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valvaren

I always thought the first rule to switched was to hold out and not let them have a mouse because that wasn't going to help at all. I also don't understand why you 'forced' it to eat a rat by putting it in its mouth unless you planned on feeding two meals at the same time.

it is a very common practice to give a snake a double meal when converting to rats

people wait until the mouse tails is just about gone,then introduce the rats head to the snake.an assist feed in a way.

i took from the op's post that she dangled the rat with feeding tongs and they snake took it of its own accord.JUST RE READ the op did assist feed with her tongs.imo a perfectly good way that a lot of people practice,when switching from mice to rats

either way imo,its a recognised way of switching from one type prey item to a different type prey that your snake may be reluctant to eat

you could always try scenting the rat with the mouse,but it is a bit messy and smelly

you have to burst open the mouse and smear the mouse blood and guts all over the rat.with the hope that your snake mistakes the rat for a mouse.once they start taking heavily scented rats regularily,then you just use less and less scent each feed until they take unscented rats

yours may already be converted.if it was me,next feed i'd defrost the rat with the mouse on top of it,then offer only the rat.he may just go for it and your jobs done

let us know how his next feed goes please

cheers shaun

jarich · 11-01-11, 06:50 AM

I see what you mean, its easier to feed one rat than three mice. My concern was more with going through all the stress and bother with switching if its based on what seems to be a prevalent misconception, that somehow rats are more nutritious. Im not sure if that was the reason for your switch though, Zaradozia. You seem to do a lot of research on everything as well so Im guessing it was probably more for convenience sake than anything else.

alessia55 · 11-01-11, 07:25 AM

Ah, I see my post has yet to reappear after the weird forum glitch.

Well, to summarize what I'd said:
Zaradozia is trying to prevent my situation: My 2yr old ball python has become a very picky eater and now the only thing he'll eat is 3 mice in one sitting as a meal.

I too am in the process of switching him over to f/t rats (which would be more convenient for him, more convenient for me, cheaper, and safer). I've tried holing him out for long periods of time, only offering rats, scenting rats, etc, and nothing has worked. Until I started doing what Zaradozia is doing: "assist-feeding" a f/t rat right after the mouse he's used to eating. I do believe it's going to help him make the switch. After all, like Zaradozia said, it's worth trying something new when all else fails.
Good luck, don't give up the fight!

ZARADOZIA · 11-02-11, 05:15 AM

Last year I tried switching to rats and she didn't eat for 7 months. So that obviously didn't work. Now I am going to try a much more slow and gradual process allowing her time to get use to the smell.

Basic rule of thumb: Why continue to do the same thing over and over and expect different results? That's like banging your head against the wall and expecting it not to hurt the third time.

I did defrost them together in the same bowl in hopes their odors would mingle. I am not ready to do the messy stuff yet.

Vid is 10 minutes that you won't ever get back. Sorry I don't know how to speed frame yet. Still learning.

jarich · 11-02-11, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alessia55

Ah, I see my post has yet to reappear after the weird forum glitch.

Well, to summarize what I'd said:
Zaradozia is trying to prevent my situation: My 2yr old ball python has become a very picky eater and now the only thing he'll eat is 3 mice in one sitting as a meal.

Again, Im not sure I understand why this is a problem. Your ball only eats mice...ok, so feed it mice. Why go seven months withholding a perfectly nutritious and healthy food from the animal? Why go through all the stress inducing ordeal you are discussing? I cant see how this makes logical sense when you both are talking about one or two animals. Financially its not that much difference. (1 mouse is $1 or less, 1 rat is $2 or less, so youre only talking about a dollar difference per feeding, given that 3 mice equal one rat) I could see it if you were breeding them and had dozens of animals, but with one animal youre talking about around $50 difference a year in total. That hardly seems worth the stress you may be causing them.

If you were raising the prey items, again I could understand your desire to change to rats. Mice are super smelly and nasty animals to breed, whereas rats are clean and very social animals. But your not breeding your prey so thats not applicable here either.

Though its getting on the technical side, mice are actually a healthier animal to feed your snakes anyway(more nutrients, less fat). Check out the breakdown.. Nutrition Feeder Mice | Nutrient Composition of Feeder Animals Its just my opinion, but if your animal is feeding regularly on a perfectly healthy and balanced diet then there seems like no reason to change it.

alessia55 · 11-02-11, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jarich

Again, Im not sure I understand why this is a problem. Your ball only eats mice...ok, so feed it mice. Why go seven months withholding a perfectly nutritious and healthy food from the animal? Why go through all the stress inducing ordeal you are discussing? I cant see how this makes logical sense when you both are talking about one or two animals. Financially its not that much difference. (1 mouse is $1 or less, 1 rat is $2 or less, so youre only talking about a dollar difference per feeding, given that 3 mice equal one rat) I could see it if you were breeding them and had dozens of animals, but with one animal youre talking about around $50 difference a year in total. That hardly seems worth the stress you may be causing them.

My priority is switching him over to f/t (since he's eating LIVE mice), but but switching him over to rats at the same time. Why rats? Because the live mice I buy are SIX dollars each. Yup. Oh, and a 30min drive EACH WAY (so factor in time + gas money). F/t rats could be kept in my freezer. So why not f/t MICE? Because he'd go through them faster. I don't have any place near me to find f/t prey unless I order online which is a little higher than my budget because they add in shipping etc. The best place for me to buy f/t is at expos, which aren't often. Why have to buy two bags of f/t mice when I could have him eating 1 bag of f/t rats? As far as money, convenience, and ease, switching him over to f/t rats seems totally worth it.