Great, now we have to fight OTHER animal lovers

**millertime89** · 10-25-11, 02:10 PM

the humane society has had a knee jerk reaction to the tragedy in Ohio and is calling for a ban on interstate sale of large snakes (retics, burms, condas, and boas, among others) I was a member, but after recieving this email, I am no longer.

Critical regulations proposed by U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service to curb the cruel, dangerous, and harmful ecological consequences associated with the trade in nonnative, large constrictor snakes have been delayed due to grossly exaggerated economic claims from the reptile industry.

The Obama Administration should finalize a proposed rule to ban the interstate trade in nine species of large constrictor snakes including Burmese pythons and anacondas. A two-year-old girl was killed in Florida in 2009 when her family's python escaped from its tank and suffocated her. These particular species not only pose a threat to public safety, but also have been determined by the U.S. Geological Survey to pose the greatest risk of wreaking ecological havoc on our natural resources. These concerns should outweigh any by those in the snake industry to turn a profit.

Hopefully, this Administration will not allow special interests to impede a rule that is good for the public, animals, and the environment.

Here's what I changed it to:
The Obama Administration should NOT finalize a proposed rule to ban the interstate trade in nine species of large constrictor snakes including Burmese pythons and anacondas. Yes, a two-year-old girl was killed in Florida in 2009 when her family's python escaped from its tank and suffocated her. However these particular species do not pose a threat to public safety, but also have been wrongly determined by the U.S. Geological Survey to pose the greatest risk of wreaking ecological havoc on our natural resources. These concerns are ill founded, the snakes are tropical and as such can not survive on their own north of the tropical climate of the Everglades and South Florida for very long. The previous winter saw a massive die off in escaped snake species. Much research has been done by professional herpetologists and biologists proving this and a knee jerk reaction to the tragedy in Ohio is not the answer, especially when the animals that were released were lions, tigers, bears, and primates. Further research is needed, and subspecies of these large snakes such as dwarf burmese pythons and super dwarf reticulated pythons (maximum length around 7 feet) deserve special consideration. Furthermore the outright ban on these beautiful creatures is unnecessary, it should be the burden of the keeper that desires to house and care for these animals to obtain a license to allow them to do just that. A complete ban is completely unnecessary and will harm the livelihood of people such as Jay Brewer (Prehistoric Pets, CA) and Bob Clark (Bob Clark Captive Bred Reptiles, CA) as well as many others. At a time when many people are without jobs, why would you work towards a law that would put many more without jobs?

Snakefood · 10-25-11, 02:18 PM

As with any pets at large, I beleive it is solely the owners responsibility to keep thier pets contained and cared for.

Unfortunately the only way that I can see to MAKE owners accountable, would be to microchip each snake (I know hard to do) and if they are caught (or their carcass found) in the wild, then the owner can be traced.

This is never going to happen. But I have this thought in my head that if bad owners could somehow be held responsible for animals at large, then many species/breeds would not have the bad name they have today.

**millertime89** · 10-25-11, 02:25 PM

I've wondered how hard it would be to 'chip a snake once it reaches 6, 7, or maybe even 8 feet in length. I do think there needs to be restrictions on who can own what, but a ban is not the correct way, especially since you can still purchase these snakes in your own state. This bill will only restrict people to buying what is already in their state, not buying it all together. Education and keepers taking proper precautions would go a long way, but humans are stupid and frightened.

ZARADOZIA · 10-25-11, 02:33 PM

WELL SAID KYLE!! WOOOOOT!!

(You even brought up the research that was done recently in the Everglades - very cool!!)

I will keep my opinions on Obama to myself. But I will say there's a good chance he will endorse.

alessia55 · 10-25-11, 02:36 PM

To own big snakes in FL, you have to have a license, pay a fee, and meet specific caging requirements. I think this is something more feasible to work towards to make sure that those who DO take care of big snakes have the appropriate "snake-proof" caging.

I also think that micro-chipping is a wonderful idea. My adult ball python is micro-chipped, and I plan on micro-chipping my young ball python soon too. I do this for the same reason people micro-chip their cats and dogs: should they ever get out, I *WANT* them to be found and brought back to me. Responsible keepers of large snakes should have the same initiative to begin with since responsible keepers would not want their large snakes to get loose, harmed, or harm others, harm the environment, etc. The key word of course is RESPONSIBLE keepers.

Despite laws, people will ALWAYS find a way to buy, sell, and keep large snakes. I actually think that banning them would cause a backlash (as in people will find a way to do it anyways, and it's usually worse to have it underground than to have it "above ground" where it can be regulated).

That said, the current proposals to ban large snakes are very poorly written and not based in fact, which is why most of them haven't passed into law yet (and hopefully never will).

My personal opinion is that, in order to control owners from releasing their large snakes into the wild where they can pose a danger to themselves and others, there should be a way of regulating them. This can be done with micro-chipping, licensing, charging a fee, requiring specific caging, etc.

Banning an animal makes it look like the animal is at fault-- which is rarely the case.

Snakefood · 10-25-11, 02:38 PM

it wouldn't be hard, it's just a big-barreled needle. I think for a snake it would be more "where to put it". In a dog it goes into the sub-cutaneous fat layer, which I think healthy snakes don't have. It would be a small break in the skin, so you may have to put AB cream on it till the next shed, or it would be very small, so maybe it would scab?? I don't know, my snake has never had a wound, so I'm not sure how they heal.

Everything is about education, but also the biggest problem is of AWARENESS. The media shows the tragedies, the horrors, bad endings, and death. We, as snake lovers have to get the other side out there. All the owners who care for and properly house the species that "could" be dangerous or invasive if let loose in this non-native enviromment somehow need to get the news out that when properly cared for, these make wonderful show specimens who live their ENTIRE lives in captivity!!

snake man12 · 10-25-11, 04:23 PM

This shouldn't happen like alessia55 said you should just have to pay a fee, and meet specific caging requirements.

marvelfreak · 10-25-11, 07:06 PM

I have something for you to all read about the Humane Society. I got this from another forum.

Snakefood · 10-25-11, 07:39 PM

PETA has alot of the same policies.

stephanbakir · 10-26-11, 10:51 AM

Wow... sigh...

RandyRhoads · 10-29-11, 05:27 PM

I despise PETA.

Gungirl · 10-29-11, 07:43 PM

PETA= People eating tasty animals!!

**millertime89** · 10-29-11, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gungirl

PETA= People eating tasty animals!!

that's MY PETA!

marvelfreak · 10-30-11, 05:57 AM

Just read this and thought i share.
day, October 23 2011

In wake of tragedy, Ohio proposes banning... corn snakes?

By Jeff Barringer
Sun, October 23 2011 at 06:51

In the wake of the awful tragedy that left dozens of exotics dead, their carcasses piled in the mud by authorities like so many trash bags on the side of the road, awful law proposals against the owners of "exotic" pets have begun.

First out of the gate in Ohio is House Bill No. 352, an emergency exotic law that appears to prevent ownership of most, if not all, pet snakes -- even the lowly pet corn snake.

A wide and sweeping proposal that so lacks details and definition that it essentially encompasses virtually any pet snake, HB 352 outlaws the possession of "A constricting snake."

Since the proposal fails to define what a "constricting snake" is, and since the overwhelming majority of snakes considered non-venomous are known to subdue their prey by "constriction," virtually every pet snake kept in the State of Ohio, which is likely to be in the hundreds of thousands if not millions, would be considered illegal under the ban.

Current Ohio residents who own a "constricting snake" would have 60 days to register if they met the state's criteria. The proposal is unclear as to what happens to people and their animals if they do not meet the state's registration criteria.

I would encourage all residents of Ohio to contact their elected representatives and ask them to clarify the proposal, specifically detailing the animals they intend to restrict, so that their laws allow people to keep their pet corn snakes and other "non-dangerous" snakes, and focus on the truly dangerous animals they really intend to restrict. And for pet owners in other states, be on the look out for more poorly-written laws headed your way, too.

To read the bill in its entirety please look at H. B. No. 352As Introduced.

(Note. Originally this article referenced Garter Snakes as it's example and it was pointed out to me by a noted wildlife artist that Garter Snakes are not considered "true constrictors" so rather than argue semantics and field observations, the article has been changed to use the ubiquitous Corn Snake, perhaps the most commonly pet snake, equally non-dangerous, and without doubt a "true constrictor". Thank you John for keeping me honest. If I am asking them to be specific I need to be equally specific. And thanks to EricWi for bringing this legislation to my attention.)

Snakefood · 10-30-11, 12:52 PM

I'd like to know what snakes have to do with lions, tigers and bears (oh my!!) being released into the woods by a mentally deranged man. I read about this tragedy, and from the details given, this man was known for improper animal care, neglect and abuse. he had been investigated over and over, so why did the authorities let him have such dangerous animals to begin with?? This was a tragedy waiting to happen and with the right actions taken against this guy, completely aviodable

And I'd really like to know what kind of harm they are expecting from a corn snake???