F/T vs live why do you feed

kellcore · 07-04-11, 12:58 PM

Ok so i see alot of people feed frozen. And i want to know why. I think its more natural to feed live. Now on more scared snakes we will stunn the rat or mouse so the snake doesnt get hurt but they still move around. And i always was one to like my meat fresh other than frozen. But also the fact that when thawing a rat the inside could still be frozen, or rotting from the stomach acid. or as the inside is thawing the outside could be rotting.

So i guess my question is why do you feed what you do?

I also recomend live for beginner snake owners as they may not thaw right or feel comfortable making the mouse dance. Now for the larger snakes i do not recomend them to anyone but someone that has been dealing with snakes for a while. Our large snakes eat mediums to large rats now. We do stand watch and always have something to knock a rat away and have had to intervene with the bigger rats or break thier teeth but the small snakes we have never had to do anything but enjoy the show.

I dont want to start a debate or arguement i just like to hear other peoples opinions.

Damion930 · 07-04-11, 01:28 PM

Freezing kills bacteria and even with someone standing guard a snake can still be injured. Its also easyer and cheaper to store frozen. Also I like all critters and don't like to see them suffer

reptile65 · 07-04-11, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kellcore

Ok so i see alot of people feed frozen. And i want to know why. I think its more natural to feed live. Now on more scared snakes we will stunn the rat or mouse so the snake doesnt get hurt but they still move around. And i always was one to like my meat fresh other than frozen. But also the fact that when thawing a rat the inside could still be frozen, or rotting from the stomach acid. or as the inside is thawing the outside could be rotting.

So i guess my question is why do you feed what you do?

I also recomend live for beginner snake owners as they may not thaw right or feel comfortable making the mouse dance. Now for the larger snakes i do not recomend them to anyone but someone that has been dealing with snakes for a while. Our large snakes eat mediums to large rats now. We do stand watch and always have something to knock a rat away and have had to intervene with the bigger rats or break thier teeth but the small snakes we have never had to do anything but enjoy the show.

I dont want to start a debate or arguement i just like to hear other peoples opinions.

In my opinion, you can't make the argument that it's more natural to feed snakes live. Once you keep a snake in a small enclosure in captivity, you throw "natural" out the window. It's not natural for a mouse/rat to be confined to a small space where it can't escape. It is also not natural for the snake to not be able to get away if the rodent decides to take a chunk out of it.

IMO, it's more humane for both the rodent AND the snake to feed f/t. Not to mention it's way more convenient for me to buy frozen rodents in bulk.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damion930

Freezing kills bacteria and even with someone standing guard a snake can still be injured. Its also easyer and cheaper to store frozen. Also I like all critters and don't like to see them suffer

Freezing doesn't actually kill bacteria. All it does is slow the growth of bacteria, but when you warm it up again, the bacteria can still grow and reproduce.

Dehlida · 07-04-11, 01:41 PM

I feed both, some get live here and there most get frozen thawed or prekilled items. It's easier to toss a bowl of prekilled mice/rats in with an animal or offer the prey item by tongs if its already dead. The only animals that ever eat live are a couple monitors, and that is a treat.

I'm not aware of any bacteria or viruses that mice carry to be dangerous to any reptile. Those diseases simply aren't hazardous to reptiles and don't jump from mammals to herps.

kellcore · 07-04-11, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dehlida

I'm not aware of any bacteria or viruses that mice carry to be dangerous to any reptile. Those diseases simply aren't hazardous to reptiles and don't jump from mammals to herps.

specially captive bred rats and mice. Unless your going out and trying to breed wild into them.

Coffee Black · 07-04-11, 02:46 PM

Breaking their teeth is also definitely not natural.

Lankyrob · 07-04-11, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kellcore

Ok so i see alot of people feed frozen. And i want to know why. I think its more natural to feed live. Now on more scared snakes we will stunn the rat or mouse so the snake doesnt get hurt but they still move around. And i always was one to like my meat fresh other than frozen. But also the fact that when thawing a rat the inside could still be frozen, or rotting from the stomach acid. or as the inside is thawing the outside could be rotting.

So i guess my question is why do you feed what you do?

I also recomend live for beginner snake owners as they may not thaw right or feel comfortable making the mouse dance. Now for the larger snakes i do not recomend them to anyone but someone that has been dealing with snakes for a while. Our large snakes eat mediums to large rats now. We do stand watch and always have something to knock a rat away and have had to intervene with the bigger rats or break thier teeth but the small snakes we have never had to do anything but enjoy the show.

I dont want to start a debate or arguement i just like to hear other peoples opinions.

Seems to me that you feed live for YOUR benefit and not the snakes? There is no argument for feeding the majority of snakes live, in rare occassions it may be the only way to get a non feeder to eat but even then there are many many things i would try before attempting live feeding.

The biggest thing for me is the safety of my snakes and feeding f/t is the safest method.

kellcore · 07-04-11, 03:03 PM

We only break teeth or thump when they pose a threat to the snake. But my snakes are pretty agressive eaters and strike perfectly on the face and kill pretty quickly. We only do all those things when there is needed to put its on a very rare occasion.

Lankyrob · 07-04-11, 03:17 PM

If you fed f/t you wouldnt ever have to do these things, doesnt make any sense to me.

NennaMeerkat · 07-04-11, 03:21 PM

I guess you have never owned a snake that just doesn't constrict? Either by nature or because the snake just isn't the kind to constrict? There are several species of snakes in the world that don't constrict. Like hognose snakes for instance. What do you do then?

Also not all snakes are rat eaters in the wild...so how is it natural to force them to eat something they wouldn't normally eat? You are already giving them a unnatural food source and then making them eat it alive.

kellcore · 07-04-11, 03:35 PM

Thats why i was asking what everyone does. As a supplier i would like to know the reasons i get my requests that i do.

I have always had ball pythons or columbian redtails never anything else. And i know balls its more natural to eat ASF but mine will only take rats we have tried to feed them pretty much everything before and they ear rats. Our biggest male columbian wont eat dead the guy we got him from never could get him over to f/t thats why he got rid of him.

I just have never understood the reason for f/t and everyone does have thier own opinions. But it is interesting i never thought about cornsnakes or hog nose.

What other sources of food do you guys use?

My curiousity is just really really peeked as i get lots of requests for frozen more so than live. It just makes me wonder why and to hear so many opinions on it helps me understand my customers better. How do you like them packaged and frozen? How do you thaw them? How do you s tore them?

Please explain to me from my end we feed live we dont feed frozen i just fill the orders for frozen.

Damion930 · 07-04-11, 03:57 PM

Ok lol how about freezing does not kill all bacteria and septicimia can be caused by multiple strains of bacteria many found in rats.

NennaMeerkat · 07-04-11, 03:59 PM

I buy in bulk at reptile expos, live pinkies if I can't get already frozen. Usually buy enough to last me until the next expo. I store them 4 each in freezer style ziplock baggies. I don't have a CO2 chamber so if they are alive I put them in the freezer that way (which I know many of you hate so lets not go there).

I also have 2 frozen small toads that I caught last year in the freezer. I have to toad scent the pinkies once I unthaw them so my hognose will eat. She cannot resist that smell (which just grosses me out!) I fill up a small tupperware with hot hot water then put a single frozen pinky in a small ziplock bag. Put the pinky that is in the bag in the tupperware with my manual can opener to weight the bag down. The toads aren't put in the hot water instead they sit out to get only slightly unfrozen. Then I rub down the unthawed pinkie all over with the moist toad.

Put in tank on a place with no bedding and show the snake the food. Done and done until next week.

kellcore · 07-04-11, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NennaMeerkat

I buy in bulk at reptile expos, live pinkies if I can't get already frozen. Usually buy enough to last me until the next expo. I store them 4 each in freezer style ziplock baggies. I don't have a CO2 chamber so if they are alive I put them in the freezer that way (which I know many of you hate so lets not go there).

I also have 2 frozen small toads that I caught last year in the freezer. I have to toad scent the pinkies once I unthaw them so my hognose will eat. She cannot resist that smell (which just grosses me out!) I fill up a small tupperware with hot hot water then put a single frozen pinky in a small ziplock bag. Put the pinky that is in the bag in the tupperware with my manual can opener to weight the bag down. The toads aren't put in the hot water instead they sit out to get only slightly unfrozen. Then I rub down the unthawed pinkie all over with the moist toad.

Put in tank on a place with no bedding and show the snake the food. Done and done until next week.

That was kind of gross lol but thanks for explaining. We package ours in vacumm tight bags to keep them from getting freezer burnt.

NennaMeerkat · 07-04-11, 04:08 PM

Usually mine doesn't get to that point since I use the rather expensive bags that are meant to keep things safe from freezer burn. And thankfully we have expos near us every few months.

And yes those toads are uber nasty! But thankfully all I need is a little of their scent and then it is right back into the freezer. I will be glad when I can find some more.