I needa little help...

[feranaja]

Hello everyone, I have been a member here for sometime but I haven't logged in for quite some time. I share my life with several reptiles - a veiled chameleon, until recently a bearded dragon (he passed away at an advanced age) and two ball pythons - one calm, friendly captive bred male, and one very anxious, aggressive, wild caught female.

Last winter I put them together so they could have some company and I figured if we got eggs, I'd just remove them as I'm not into breeding and I didn't want a bunch more snakes.

But after the winter passed and I separated Benjamin and Clementine again, there was what looked like an egg sack, flattened and empty and I just tidied up under her hide and forgot about it.

Clem usually pees etc outside her hide and hates to be disturbed so I rarely lift it. She's a good eater in warm weather, and seems happiest left with minimal handling. I feed her about once a week, a good sized rat, and change her water and that's pretty much that.

So imagine my absolute shock when I went in last night to change water/mist the chameleon and my GOD but there is a baby snake in her tank.
It just got more startling when I lifted her hide and yep - there was another one in there with her.
I have two beautiful, strange coloured little bp babies and I have no idea how this happened or what to do next. I raced into town and bought pinkies but so far no interest at all. Isn't this a little unusual?

What do I do next - remove them to another tank? How do I feed them? Can they stay together? With the mother? Any and all advice is appreciated because I am totally blown away and out of my depth here.
Thanks in advance,
fera

[gonesnakee]

First off you need to be a lot more thorough in your cleaning if you actually had eggs in there long enough to be maternally incubated.
That said they need to be seperated ASAP in their own individual "shoebox" size tubs.
Basic setups with a damp papertowel for substrate, a water dish & a couple toliet paper rolls for hides.
After around a week they will shed & then you do not need damp PTs until they are in shed again.
Wait another 2 weeks after they have their first sheds & then offer them their first meals, do so in their tubs & try a live rat pinky if they are available to you. & do so at night.
Don't try right after they shed, they are more apt to eat if you wait a coule weeks as they will be living off of their yolk guts.
You want them on rats right from the getgo if possible.
Leave it in with them overnight & leave them alone.
They need to be setup in a nice quiet area of the home & you want them at 90-95F as babies. Having a hotside/coldside is not that important as babies & you want it no cooler than 85F & no hotter than 95F if kept warm they are apt to eat sooner & better as well.
A nice surprise anyhow.
Thorughly clean out Mommas tank as well so all their "scent" is removed & she will start feeding sooner as well if she is not already that is.
Usually when mothers maternally incubate they will not eat anything. Mark

[feranaja]

Thank you Mark, I greatly appreciate this advice. Will get on it right now.

[feranaja]

Originally Posted by gonesnakee

First off you need to be a lot more thorough in your cleaning if you actually had eggs in there long enough to be maternally incubated.

Honestly, given the emotional state of this snake I disturb her hide as little as possible. I use aspen and I remove any soiled areas promptly, once in a while I take her water out and move her hide but it seems to upset her so I've left the hide alone as much as possible.
DO you think I should more it more often?

That said they need to be separated ASAP in their own individual "shoebox" size tubs.

Can I use a larger aquarium and juts divide it so they're separated?

Basic setups with a damp papertowel for substrate, a water dish & a couple toliet paper rolls for hides.
After around a week they will shed & then you do not need damp PTs until they are in shed again.
Wait another 2 weeks after they have their first sheds & then offer them their first meals, do so in their tubs & try a live rat pinky if they are available to you. & do so at night.

I don't have live pinkies, can I simply wriggle the dead ones around on a tong for them?

Don't try right after they shed, they are more apt to eat if you wait a couple weeks as they will be living off of their yolk guts.

So they're ok for now, yes?

You want them on rats right from the getgo if possible.
Leave it in with them overnight & leave them alone.
They need to be setup in a nice quiet area of the home & you want them at 90-95F as babies. Having a hotside/coldside is not that important as babies & you want it no cooler than 85F & no hotter than 95F if kept warm they are apt to eat sooner & better as well.
A nice surprise anyhow.

Yes, I'm just amazed actually.

Thorughly clean out Mommas tank as well so all their "scent" is removed & she will start feeding sooner as well if she is not already that is.
Usually when mothers maternally incubate they will not eat anything. Mark

Ok. I did notice Clem not eating *as much* this summer but she did eat, several rats over the last few months. Maybe she's just an oddball.
fera

[gonesnakee]

No problem.
Folks will tell you to try & feed them as soon as they have shed, but in my decade of experience attempting to do so can make them stay off of food even longer & even create a nonfeeder problem.
Waiting a couple weeks will ensure a much higher success rate right from the start.
If they do not eat the live rat Ps try once every 7-10 days 2 or 3 times & then maybe try a live mouse fuzzy if they will not start on rats.
You could try FT rat Ps right off but likely not going to take them, some will most will not. Cheers Mark

[gonesnakee]

On your Qs your presence trying a tease feed will intimidate them & they are not likely to feed for you. After at least one meal you can try, but its good to have that first meal live to get them onto prey/eating.
If you cannot get live yes of course try, but do so at night, ensure the prey is at least 100F & if they do not grab it right away leave it there while its nice & warm & leave the room for at least an hour befoer checking back to see if they took it.
They tend to eat right away if they are going too, but you can leave it overnight as they will sometimes eat it much later as well.
Key is too leave them alone as your presence is treated like a predator being there & if you disturb them when eating they are apt to spit it out or up.
I find that snakes will crap & pee in their hides quite often & no matter where they go they have a habit of lying in it as well DOH!
Don't want them in a hide with their own filth now do we?
AQs SUCK for BPs & don't hold humidity worth crap.
Also large spaces make babies nervous & defensive.
BPs prefer small tight quarters specially as babies, they feel far more secure in a smaller space.
Also no handling of the babies until they are feeding well, having had multiple meals.
Just cleaning & feeding. Hope that helps some, Mark

[feranaja]

Originally Posted by gonesnakee

On your Qs your presence trying a tease feed will intimidate them & they are not likely to feed for you. After at least one meal you can try, but its good to have that first meal live to get them onto prey/eating.
If you cannot get live yes of course try, but do so at night, ensure the prey is at least 100F & if they do not grab it right away leave it there while its nice & warm & leave the room for at least an hour befoer checking back to see if they took it.
They tend to eat right away if they are going too, but you can leave it overnight as they will sometimes eat it much later as well.
Key is too leave them alone as your presence is treated like a predator being there & if you disturb them when eating they are apt to spit it out or up.
I find that snakes will crap & pee in their hides quite often & no matter where they go they have a habit of lying in it as well DOH!
Don't want them in a hide with their own filth now do we?
AQs SUCK for BPs & don't hold humidity worth crap.
Also large spaces make babies nervous & defensive.
BPs prefer small tight quarters specially as babies, they feel far more secure in a smaller space.
Also no handling of the babies until they are feeding well, having had multiple meals.
Just cleaning & feeding. Hope that helps some, Mark

This helps a lot actually, I just had the gold coloured one out for a bit, as I would have assumed early handling is good fr them.

Ben craps in his hide but Clem rarely does, I haven't moved it all summer and there were egg cases in there but no excrement. She pees beside the water dish mostly.
I'm so grateful for all of this info! I want these beautiful little guys to live.

Aquariums are not good? I am hoping to build larger enclosures, can you point me to a thread or link that will help me figure out how?

[gonesnakee]

I think there is a caging forum here as well as on other reptile sites.
There are tons of commercially made ones out there now as well.
Tanks can be OK as long as the screen tops are 1/2 or more covered to hold in heat & humidity.
Anything with an open tops lets all of both escape otherwise.
Plus lights kill humidity too, belly heat is far better (IE: UTHs - Under Tank Heaters).
Plastic premade ones are good as they stand up to humidity well, wood ones do not unless properly treated etc. Mark

[feranaja]

Ok - I followed your advice, cleaned out a smaller aquarium and covered the bottom with paper towel, put in a hide and a couple of paper towel rolls, an water. Misted thoroughly and covered half of the top. It's in my reptile room so hot in there; I mist every few hours when I do the chameleon. There were THREE baby snakes in there, and they're all in the hide now. I have not figured out a way to keep them separate - I need to subdivide the tank - but that's the next goal.

One shed already - is this very soon? I mean within a day or two of moving them.
How soon should I feed momma snake? I've totally cleaned her tank, removed and replaced all the aspen.

[gonesnakee]

They can be housed together until they have all had their first sheds.
Snakes usually have their first shed sometime within the first week or so of hatching, some in a day or 2 some a week or so.
If your room is hot anyhow just buy 3 small rubbermiad like containers, shoebox size or slightly smaller & set the snakes up in them, you are looking at a cost of approx $10 to do so.
Momma can be offered prey right away if you like, Mark

[feranaja]

Ok, great, will do. I'll feed Clementine (momma) and get the wee ones separated. They are soo pretty, I will put up a picture soon. I won't handle them yet either. But it's hard not to - they are so cute it's incredible!

The father, Benjamin, is the loveliest boy. He was my first bp and is just gentle and intelligent,very black in colour and BIG... I don't know how much their personalities differ, but if these babies take after a parent in that regard, I hope it's their Mom.

But now I have....5..snakes, lol.

Thanks again Mark, you've been a Godsend.

fera