would you use a jag with neuro problem to breed?

Freebody · 08-05-10, 09:05 PM

would you use a snake you were told was perfectly healthy and then find out the breeding pair you got, the jag male you got has neuro problems and still keep them and breed them or would you call the breeder which was selling the perfectly healthy mature breeding pair and say i want my money back? i really like them but i only got them on my credit card so i can breed them this year and make my money back as well as having the 2 snakes that i have been wanting to buy someday as well as finnaly enjoy the whole breeding process. im not sure what to do but im thinking it would be the more moral thing to return them even know im going to miss them and not make money on them, i could do as he did buy them breed them once and sell them again, but i dont really like the idea of breeding new snakes from a bloodline i know is bad.... hmm what would you do?

Da Beast · 08-05-10, 09:22 PM

get your cash back if you can

infernalis · 08-05-10, 09:23 PM

Myself, I would never breed any animal that could possibly pass a defective gene on to it's offspring.

But that's just me.

Da Beast · 08-05-10, 09:25 PM

what store/breeder did you buy the snakes from

infernalis · 08-05-10, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Da Beast

what store/breeder did you buy the snakes from

I will allow an answer, but be advised we are not the BOI. so please no bashing.

Freebody · 08-05-10, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by infernalis

Myself, I would never breed any animal that could possibly pass a defective gene on to it's offspring.

But that's just me.

i dont like the idea either. he said he only had them a few months before breed them so i dont want to go saying hes trashy breeder yet, we will se how he resolves the issue first, he may not been aware and is sorry and gives my cash back with no problems. time will tell i just sent him an email to trade males if hes got one or give my money back on both.

infernalis · 08-05-10, 09:43 PM

Good luck!! fingers crossed.

Da Beast · 08-05-10, 09:44 PM

BOI????? wasn't planning on any bashing, wandering cause i live close to Freebody and if they wont give a warranty on there animals i want to stay away from them

percey39 · 08-05-10, 10:14 PM

I would not breed them myself as i believe the same as Wayne does. In saying that there are numerous jags being bred with this issue and an incredible number of jags with neuro issues out there. It is very common as Shaun has said in both jags and spider morphs. Also i have heard of issues similar with consistant line breeding, but in saying that there is a hell of a lot of snakes that if you traced back bloodlines would be inbred and over time. Say you buy a pair from two different breeders there is a fair chance these snakes could be related.
Good luck if you try to return the snakes, as i know first hand there are some nasty people in this hobby.

Freebody · 08-05-10, 11:34 PM

thats why i was thinking about keeping them as i could get a different jag that has no signs and then turns out to be the brother of the snake im giving up lol and i hate the idea of giving them back to this guy that had them in such tiny cages. the femal is a beautifull bredle and hes real nice looking as well.i would like to just breed them once and keep them but im not sure if i can in good concsience,if i do and worst come to play, i would feel terrible knowing it could have been avoided. well he has not messaged me back yet and he said he had bread her to 2 different males this year for the clutch of eggs he took from this pair, why i dont know but he may trade for the other jag male if it was his.i hate the idea of giving them up now that i got them home and held them and had names for them already

i got a big heart when it come to animals.i might keep them anyways poor snakes need some loving 2,specially a slightly brain damaged one, its really rather slight neuro problems, but he does have it.

bladeblaster · 08-06-10, 01:15 AM

The jag neuro issue is not bloodline related, it crops up in any jag. Also breeding from an animal that displays the trait does not mean that the offspring will show the trait, conversely breeding from animals that don;t show the trait can produce offspring that do show the trait.

If you are going to breed jags its just something that you just have to accept. I personally believe that pretty much all jags carry the problem its just that some are so slight that you can't really notice it, but trust me its there.

To add to that, animals that show no signs of the problem as hatchlings can develop increased signs as the get older, and also (alhtough rarer) hatchlings that display syptoms can improve as they get older.

Persoanlly I took quite a time to reconcile what I thought was morally the right thing to do before producing jags, however having worked with adult snakes that have quite pronounced symptoms, they lead a perfectly good life (in my opinion), they certainly don't seem distressed or disadvantaged at all, they eat well, shed well, climb well, breed, are as calm and relaxed as anyother caret python. So in my own mind at least I am happy to produce Jags.

There are others that disagree, and I respect that opinion, although most of the people who are dead against Jags, have never actually worked with animals that display the issue.

Lankyrob · 08-06-10, 04:00 AM

Just one thing - as you used your credit card and received "defective goods" you are insured and can get legal advice from the credit card company. May be a route to a solution should you not get any joy direct from the breeder.

.: Laura :. · 08-06-10, 04:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by infernalis

Myself, I would never breed any animal that could possibly pass a defective gene on to it's offspring.

But that's just me.

I completely agree

bladeblaster · 08-06-10, 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by infernalis

Myself, I would never breed any animal that could possibly pass a defective gene on to it's offspring.

But that's just me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by .: Laura :.

I completely agree

but what constitutes a 'defective' gene? Albinism is a result of 'defective' / 'abnormal' genes, as is every other mutation.

What it comes down to the the quality of life we percieve the animal to have with these defective genes, and that is very much opinion based.

infernalis · 08-06-10, 07:21 AM

"defective" = Neuro problems, kinked spine, reproductive problems,.......

Any genetic trait that would cause the animal or it's offspring to suffer.

Another problem no one seems to be thinking about, what if the condition skips a generation, the next litter could have the defective babies, is the next person going to be kind? are they going to just keep on breeding? are they going to flush a batch of deformed babies down the toilet??