Need advice- new snake has RI

Will0W783 · 09-14-09, 08:13 PM

Ok, I just bought this gorgeous, docile male GTP on Thursday and he seemed fine when he arrived. However, he seemed a bit "hissy" on Saturday and yesterday he bubbled a bit when I picked him up. Today he refused food, bubbled when hissing again and I got him to open his mouth with a q-tip and he has thick mucus in there. I had him in quarantine at 82 ambient with the upper cage being at around 87-89 with humidity 70%. My question is, it's only been 3 days (I noticed definite problem yesterday, Sunday)- has too much time elapsed to contact the seller and ask him if he could help me out with vet bills?

Chu'Wuti · 09-15-09, 08:37 PM

Geez, IMHO, NO! I'd contact him right away. It's pretty doubtful that the GTP suddenly developed this RI just after shipping--sounds to me as if his conditions weren't right BEFORE he was shipped to you.

Good luck!

**Aaron_S** · 09-16-09, 03:02 AM

It would also explain his docile nature, if he is sick. Which sounds like he is. You should be talking to the person who sold him to you and letting him know of the situation. You two can work it out from there hopefully.

Will0W783 · 09-16-09, 07:44 AM

I did talk to the seller yesterday. He said he will cover the first $50 of the vet bill, which is reasonable to me, since the snake was very cheap to begin with. The guy seems honest and helpful; I don't think he knew the snake might be getting sick, and I figure maybe he caught a chill while in transit? Anyway, I have some left over amikacin from my carpet python who had an RI a few months ago. I weighed the GTP and calculated the proper dosage and gave him the first shot last night. I am also soaking him nightly in warm (90-93 degree) water for 15 minutes, and have a UVB/full spectrum bulb I am putting on him. I upped his temps a bit to the upper 80s so it is sitting about 84-88 gradient in the cage and 70% humidity. My herp vet is on vacation until Monday, but I will call him first thing that morning and see if I can set up an appointment to get the male, Archimedes, looked at. I'm still happy with the snake and the seller was nothing but helpful and apologetic, so I sincerely doubt he purposely sent me a sick snake and he is going to help me out.

Will0W783 · 09-16-09, 07:45 AM

Thank you guys for getting back to me and giving me advice. I really appreciate it. This is the first time I've had a recently shipped snake get sick on me.

**Aaron_S** · 09-16-09, 02:49 PM

First of all, you're a very naive person.

To believe that the snake somehow got a chill during transit and it suddenly became ill. RI's aren't an overnight sensation. It takes a short time to develop. Most RI's that are caught early (as would be the case if the snake got it during transit) can be remedied with some care and a slight change to the environment. Drugs should only be used in severe cases (which sounds like this one is).

If the deal is too good to be true, then why take the risk with a sick snake? Just for the cheaper price tag? You just finished saying you couldn't afford to prove out your pos het albino ball python but bought a GTP? Kind of odd. When I buy snakes I have TWO, a total of TWO people I buy snakes from. I've bought snakes from other individuals and they aren't upto par with what my two sellers deliver. I rather the higher price tag than to deal with sick animals.

I digress, I believe the seller knew what the snake had and didn't care or really sucks at keeping reptiles and didn't even notice. The BOI is still active for the American board and you should look up ALL buyers on it.

Will0W783 · 09-16-09, 06:22 PM

The snake was perfectly fine behaviorally, breathing and all when he arrived. I was not home Friday evening until Sunday afternoon, and as soon as I saw the problem I let the seller know. He offered to take the snake back and send me the other proven breeder he has, or cover treatment- that is not the response from someone who doesn't care.
The reason I'm not proving out the poss. het right now is that we don't have space for another non-morph BP to breed to one who may or may not be a morph, thus may or may not produce profitable babies. A clutch of GTPs WILL sell for a profit, whereas if I spend the same or more to get a male het albino BP to breed to a normal-appearing BP that may turn out to be just plain normal and not be worth it. I intend to prove her out once we have more space and time and money coming in. I believe I didn't phrase things the way I meant them- it's more the space issue than money with getting another male BP.

Will0W783 · 09-16-09, 06:38 PM

And, for me, I'm not a big-time breeder or anything, not yet anyway, and I doubt I will ever be huge. We are just starting up, and my snakes that will be breeders eventually are also my pets. I love them dearly, but I do have to keep an eye as to what are good deals and what aren't, being as I'm working on my Ph.D. and I am not exactly rolling in dough. I really appreciate all the information I'm learning on this forum. I have kept snakes for years, but am just getting really into it in the last two or so. I do research things online, but enjoy talking to other keepers and knowledgeable breeders. I just didn't want anyone to take from my previous post that I was only in it for money- believe me, I adore my snakes, they are like children to me, just as any pet would be, but I would like to eventually turn my hobby into a profitable side business.

**Aaron_S** · 09-16-09, 06:50 PM

I'm sorry? All I heard was "GTP's sell for more so I want them".

Will0W783 · 09-16-09, 07:57 PM

I was just trying to explain my logic in preferring to have another GTP over a male het albino BP. I don't want an argument, I really don't want people to dislike me. I just figured it would be better to breed the GTPs over taking a chance on trying to prove out the possible het BP. It would be better to have another spider female or a pastel to breed the male spider to, but I don't want to exclusively breed ball pythons, so right now I don't want to overload myself with hets, and actual albino BPs are out of my price range until I start getting something coming back in. I understand GTPs are not easy pythons to breed, and I have done my research on breeding them. I am prepared to incubate the eggs and set the hatchlings up and work with them until they are well-established feeders before trying to sell any. I would not want them to be any less than healthy. I admire the breeders who have wonderful reputations and am hoping to be among them when I start selling. How else does anyone get ahead in breeding snakes without preferring some of the more expensive ones to breed? Please don't misread me. I really appreciate your advice and know you are one of the most experienced people on this forum, but I am limited in my financial resources and my time when my fiance and I both have other jobs. We're just trying to get the best start we can. I love GTPs- they are one of the most beautiful pythons to me, and I am dying to see a clutch of beautiful adorable babies hatching for me. (Although I am rather afraid I might get attached to all the babies and have a tough time selling them!)

totheend · 09-16-09, 09:35 PM

I think that Aaron is a little put off by the $$ you seem to be concerned about. In this hobby it would be nice to see people breeding what they love no matter the price tag. I understand that you love GTP's too, but you kinda sounded like the only thing that matters is money. I had a few BP morphs.....but sold them because it wasn't what I loved. They would have made me alot more money than the African house snakes, or Bairds rat snakes.....or the hognoses or the rest of the animals I have. But I quickly realized that breeding the animals that I really love is most rewarding.

siz · 09-17-09, 06:22 AM

It sort of seems to me that you are overloading yourself..You've had several problems with sellers and receiving animals in the past couple months, it sort of seems like you are picking up as many animals as you can so you can breed them as soon as possible, but then you run into problems like this one fairly often. Maybe it is just very unlucky coincidences, maybe not. I think the bottom line really is breed what you REALLY love and take it slow. It's not a race or contest to see who can pop put the most babies of different species in a year. (not necessarily implying this is your motive just saying). There are so many reptiles I would LOVE to breed but I am not going out buying different animals/species left and right (most of the time, hahaha

) I'm taking it slow. And you say you don't have space for a 'large BP' but you have space for a GTP? lol. I do understand what you mean by that but some people won't or don't really understand your phrasing.
What are you going to do about your GTP? Are you going to take him to the vet, get a refund, or get another breeder? How old is your female?

Just so you know, I am not attacking you at all, and I do 'like you' haha, as much as one can like someone they have never met on an internet forum really. Keep in mind you shouldn't take anything personal on an internet forum. These people, myself included, don't personally know you, we have never seen your snake room or your snakes in person and to be blunt, most people don't really care about hurting someone else's feelings and are much more concerned about the animals. Like I said, they don't know you. Brush off the insults and condescending words, and take the good advice for what it's worth.

**Aaron_S** · 09-17-09, 06:35 AM

Let's take this GTP as an example. You bought a "proven" breeder from someone for a cheap price. It seems it most likely has an URI. Now you've got to spend more money and time trying to nurse it back to health. Buying quality animals without these issues is how a GOOD breeder who wants a GOOD reputation starts. You can't produce quality animals if you don't start with quality animals.

It's good that you "love" all your animals but you need to really think about things when you bring a new animal into your collection. If you want to be a breeder you can't be bringing in sick animals as your breeding stock. I thought you ran a rescue as well?

siz · 09-17-09, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron_S

...Buying quality animals without these issues is how a GOOD breeder who wants a GOOD reputation starts. You can't produce quality animals if you don't start with quality animals.

...If you want to be a breeder you can't be bringing in sick animals as your breeding stock....

Excellent points Aaron. It's always nice to get a good deal on something, but the most important thing is that the snake you are receiving is completely healthy and from good stock itself. IMO it's worth paying the extra cash for the snake to begin with then in vet bills and stress later.

Will0W783 · 09-17-09, 08:11 AM

True, that is a good point Aaron. I thought he was a good deal and would be healthy and all, but his getting sick worries me. Now I do have to spend time and money and worry to get him healthy, and will probably not be able to breed him this year, which was the whole reason I got him right now anyway. I will have to be more careful in the future, and perhaps I too, will develop only a choice few sellers I continue to deal with. I do not run an official rescue, but I have taken in animals whose owners could no longer keep them. I do want to be a good breeder, but I know it will take time and experience and slowly building a reputation. Thank you. I am treating the new GTP with amikacin every three days, nightly warm water soaks, and added full-spectrum lighting, so hopefully he will pull out of it quickly.