Baby Tortoises????

[China Syndrome]

Hello everybody, first post here, in desperation.

I live in Qatar, 5 years ago a friend gave us 2 tortoises, I have no idea what type they are.

Anyway, baby tortoises have now starting to appear, about 2/3cm diameter. It is 50 deg outside now and lots of ants. One baby I found dead, covered in ants. Question is, did the ants kill it shortly after hatching, or only eating it once dead. The next one I found, I took no chances, I have him in a tank.

The big question ............ how do I keep him alive?

I am not a experience tortois keeper. We do not see the parents in the garden from one month to the next, but they are obviously happy out there.

I have sprinklers coming on twice a day, hence maintaining a green, if not hot, habitat.

If it is possible to up load a photo here, let me know how, it might help to identify the type of tortoise.

All advice welcome,

Thanks.

[The Snake Guru]

Well first congrats on the hatchlings! What a fantastic surprize!

I'm not exactly sure where Qatar is (I'll have to look it up after this) but it is highly possible that the ants killed the hatchling since there ones with some nasty venom and aggressive species, however it is more likely to say the hatchling just died for reasons unknown and the ants were scavaging off the corpse. Do you know what kind of ants they were?

Care for hatchlings is indentical to adults only the greens and everything should be chopped up finer and for a little boost some vitamin supliments could be added to give them a jumpstart on life. I'm hesistant to go into exact care requirements without actually knowing the species. But if you are planning on keeping them indoors a range of some kind of UVA/UVB full spectrum daylight bulbs will be needed.

Do you have a photobucket account or similar? You can copy the links directly into the message from there.

Look forward to seeing what these are, and congrats on the hatchlings!
~B~

P.S There is an attachment button on the "post" page it looks like a little paper-clip, once you click that (the paperclip) a window will open up and you'll be able to attach images from there.

[China Syndrome]

Thanks for that info. much appreciated. Dont think I can be congratulated though, didn't do anything:-)

As for Qatar, middle of the Gulf region of the Middle East, small penninsula sticking out from Saudi. I am not from here, just working here.

The ants come in all sorts of shapes and sizes, but mainly small black ones. I do not like to use ant killer in the garden, dont want to poison the tortoises.

I tried to attach photo as you described, but it is too big.

I have created a yahoo email account just for these pics, go to yahoo email and open:

t_oise@yahoo.com

Password: freddy

I will be cancelling this email after the pics have been viewed.

I included my son on one pic to give an idea of the size ......... can you tell the type of tortoise they are??

Also, do you think the baby is a hatchling or a bit older?

[The Snake Guru]

Well I downloaded the pics and I'll post them up here for you.




Ya know I'm not real big into tortoises so I'm still hesitant to say what these guys are They kind of look like Herman's or Greeks but there are differences...I actually wonder if these are a native species from your area over there, I suppose you wouldn't happen to know where they came from?

The hatchling is defeinitely a hatchling....still only has the one ring around scute....as they grow they will get more and more rings.

Basically speaking though.....your adults are obviously doing fine, so if you replicate the exact conditions the adults are at, only in an inside environment the hatchlings should thrive....the bigger thing with the indoor setup is quality lighting (full spectrum with UVA/UVB)

Hopefully some others will jump in on this, I'm really more into snakes....I've kept some tortioses over the years but mainly common species such Sulcs. Redfoots, and stuff of that nature.

~B~

[The Snake Guru]

I've been looking at several books and websites and I think you may have yourself a pair of Egyptian Tortoises (Testudo kleinmanni) Size range and overall appearance seem to fit. You should able type in the name on the internet and find all sorts of care information. I do hope this helps....sorry it took so long but there are so many of these smaller torts that look very similar.....I'm about 95% sure that the ones in the pic are Egyptian though.

~B~

[China Syndrome]

Snake Guru ............. Thank you very much.

I will look into the 'Egyptian Tortoise' possibility on the web. There are no native tortoises from this neck of the woods, maybe across the sea in Iraq/Iran, but not sure about that either. These are imported and sold as pets, though I have seen none on the market now for years, so probably banned.

I tried to load the pics as you first described, message came back 'file too big' obviously you got round that one.

I will need to do a daily garden search then if this is a hatchling, I probably found him before the sun rose or the ants got to him first. There will probably be more, I presume that more than one egg is laid at a time? They do have eggs, dont they?

Thanks again, much appreciated.

[The Snake Guru]

You're very welcome, I just hope I'm right about the species. LOL

Yeah I've got photo bucket account so I just resized them on my computer and uploaded them there, and pasted them into the message....not a problem, I was hoping some other members would jump in and see this, but I guess everyone is off doing whatever. LOL At anyrate I sent the pics to a buddy of mine at the St.Louis Zoo so he could confirm or discount my identification....so as soon as I hear back I'll let you know.

Yes they do lay eggs, though I did read thier clutch sizes are very small 4 to 5 eggs is about the max for these guys, so while it's possible you may find 1 or 2 more I think it unlikely just because there is a natural mortality rate for wild laid eggs. But do keep an eye out...you just never know!

Anytime! Good luck with them, from what I've read if these are Egyptians you've succeded at breeding at a fairly rare (at least in the US) turtle without even trying! Which I think is just Fantastic!

~B~

[China Syndrome]

Yes it will be interesting to see what they are, look forward to hearing from you on that one. Thanks for taking the time to find out.

I am quite chuffed that they bred at all, regardless of how rare it might have been. Coming from the UK, Tortoises were just kept in the garden from one year to the next, breeding was never a possibility. Of course, with the ban on protected species, Tortoises in UK are very rare now.

It is a different problem here in the gulf, so dam hot. I am surprised anything can survive outside during these summer months, let alone breed!!! Obviously they have found a suitable site for the eggs somewhere. As I mentioned before, there are sprinklers wetting the garden twice a day (thats how hot it is, the plants still all wilt between waterings only 8 hours apart, miss a day, and half the garden dies!!!),so I guess there is a damp cooler place somewhere in the shade.
I wish I knew where though, it is such a big garden, then I could collect the eggs and protect them. We also have a stray cat problem, too many of them. As the hatchlings are soft shelled (forgot to mention that earlier, the parents are hard) I figure a hungry stray cat could make a meal from one as well as the ants.

The little chap we have in the tank ....... the one in the family portrait above:-) seems to be surviving. Is water required or do they get what they require from the leaves etc?

Thanks again for your time, I hope others do respond, it is becoming quite interesting,

[The Snake Guru]

Yeah I talked to him, and he's not quite sure about the Egyptian thing he thinks it is possibly a Russian or possibly something from that genus....he was wondering if you could take a few more pics of the Belly of the Shell, Side Profile Shot, and From the top looking down? If so you can send them to me directly at thesnakeguru@yahoo.com We'll get to the bottom of this sooner or later! LOL Problem is a lot of the turtles from this genus look very similar and we're going of pictures. LOL

Glad to hear the little guy is doing well though....water should be provided in a small shallow dish....they probably will get most of the water they need from thier food yes, but it always a good idea to have a water dish present for them.

~B~

[nat_the_brat]

try posting pics at turtletimes.com in the tortoise forum, there are some really amazing people there with a lot of taxamony information in regards to turtles / torts.

[nat_the_brat]

also, it is important to soak the hatchling 1 x per day in water as deep as its bottem shell (nothing over its neck) so that it doesn't dehydrate. I know its not a russian and highly unlikely its an egyption (too large). It resembled some mediterranian species or desert tort species. Good luck!

[China Syndrome]

Thanks for all that, I will do the soaking and as soon as the parents show themselves, I will photograph them more thoroughly. I will get back to you as soon as I take the pics.

I will also post them at turtletimes.com, bear with me Nat, the parents are pretty dormant at this time of year ............ seem to hibernate in the summer!!! and more active in the winter.

[China Syndrome]

The photos of the close ups of the parent tortoise can be seen if you open the emails at

t_oise@yahoo.com (under score between t and o)
password freddy

Look at the attachments titled '4 pics'.

Thanks in advance for any body taking the time to check these out,

Cheers,

CS

[China Syndrome]

Just found a second baby tortoise, found it under some pampas grass, dark and damp, but funnily enough right next to one of the parents and in the middle of an ants nest!!! The ants (black) were all over them, but they did not seem bothered

This one is slightly bigger, paler and flatter as can be seen by the pics below. It must be the same parents, as we only have the two. I presume the slightly different appearance is to do with age difference.

We will soon be 'evicted' from the house we rent, it will then be bull dozed. I would like to think we have not left any of our little friends behind, so my son and I will be looking everyday.

Also, with the above in mind, I need to make some 'living quarters' for them.

I wanted to put pictures here, but had trouble re sizing them, they became blurred. Anyway, here is a link to 'Turtletimes.com' (hope I am not breaking any rules here) Where I have a thread on this subject with pics.

Tortoise ID please - TT - Turtle Forums

[The Snake Guru]

Ended up being Greeks huh? Well neat! and another youngster too! Congrats and good luck with the move!

~B~