Missouri (Snake Road)

The Snake Guru · 06-19-07, 11:30 PM

These are from my recent trip to Missouri, kind of went at the wrong time of year but it was still fun hunting around for stuff, saw some Cotton Mouths but they were 2 quick to photograph....sunning by the side of the wetlands and would dart into the water before you could even react. But we did find some pretty cool stuff.

~B~

The Snake Guru · 06-19-07, 11:36 PM

This was from a differnt wildlife park that you could drive through, my buddy and I jumped out to scoot the snapper across the road.

**Aaron_S** · 06-20-07, 01:44 AM

I'm pretty jealous of your ability to go herp hunting. I've only come across a Decay snake and a garter in all my times. The decay was an accident while walking down the street.

SerpentLust · 06-20-07, 02:29 PM

At least you find herps while herping...I would love to mention what I'VE found but it's not PG13....

The Snake Guru · 06-20-07, 02:36 PM

To tell you the truth, if I want to go herping it usually is a at least a 10 hour trip before I can make it to somewhere where there is something interesting to find....there are herps in MN, but they sporatic, and mostly you just find Garters like Aaron. That was a fun trip though.

~B~

ToddBecker · 06-20-07, 04:23 PM

Great pics. What kind of camera do you use. I just recently got a Nikon D40X but am still learning to use it properly..lol. Anyway, great pics man. Todd

The Snake Guru · 06-20-07, 04:27 PM

Thank you much.

It's a 4 year old Fuji Fine Pix SX5000 (I think may be off on the number), looks like 35mm but in digital style...probably worthless now, but in it's day it wasn't that cheap...LOL Ahhh well it works that's all that matters.

Glad you enjoyed the pics!
~B~

ohh_kristina · 06-20-07, 06:59 PM

It's so amazing to go out and see herps in their natural habitat - there is nothing like it! Excellent pics, looks like you had a really great time.

The Snake Guru · 06-20-07, 07:33 PM

Thank you!
I really did, would've enjoyed it even if we hadn't found anything....just fun to walk around and look.

~B~

CamHanna · 06-24-07, 04:59 PM

Chelydra.org - Snapping Turtle Handling

The Snake Guru · 06-25-07, 12:14 PM

While I appreciate your link, I've been around snappers most my life. Hell I was keeping those before I got into snakes.

In a perfect world yes moving them by the tail isn't the greatest and grabbing them around the mid-section or back of the shell does work fairly well with snappers that are accustomed to human interaction.

Unfortunately this was a wild snapper and if you've dealt with wild snappers they tend to be on the crabby side, and personally we didn't much feel like getting a chunk taken out of us.

I keep snappers as well, and with those I will take the risk to myself, but then those are more accustomed to being moved than the one we moved from the road.

Thank you,
~B~

**Rest assured no snappers were hurt in the taking of this photo**

Removed_2815 · 07-01-07, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Snake Guru

In a perfect world yes moving them by the tail isn't the greatest and grabbing them around the mid-section or back of the shell does work fairly well with snappers that are accustomed to human interaction.

Not quite. Not only is it not the greatest, it is the worst method and is highly dangerous to the animal.
My research lab has been collecting data from a Northern population of snapping turtles for over 30 years. Of the thousands of captures, all have been restrained properly (gripping the posterior portion of the carapace) and none of the biologists have ever had a chunk taken out of them. It's quite simple if you know how to do it properly and neither the captor nor the captive are in danger.
Here's an example of the proper technique (this is a 40+lb snapper that was just pulled from the lake, I assure you it is very wild...).

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Snake Guru

**Rest assured no snappers were hurt in the taking of this photo**

I wonder how you were able to assess vertebral damage in order to come to this conclusion.

Though I am not condemning you or your actions, you should be aware that the handling method depicted in your photo is improper and can cause SERIOUS injury to the turtle (nerve damage, paralysis, and death - we've seen it happen). Since you obviously appreciate herpetofauna, I know that you wouldn't want the readers of this thread to go out and start grabbing snappers by the tail and risking injury to the turtles.
Kindest regards.

The Snake Guru · 07-01-07, 08:54 PM

To tell you the truth, I wouldn't want anyone handling snappers at all if it weren't absolutely needed.

Interesting that the picture you posted shows you or whoever pulling the snapper out of the water, when they are at their coolest operating temperature, and fairly benign. Ever tried it with one that has been soaking up sun on the road for a few hours? Guarantee you would be missing your chin, not only that but I see you are in Ontario, I've been that far north before the snapping turtles you guys have up there are pretty laid back, try coming south and trying the maneuver.

Quote:

I wonder how you were able to assess vertebral damage in order to come to this conclusion.

Well it's pretty simple really.....The turtle was put down, the turtle turned gave us a good bye snap, then moved fourth to the water.....Spinal injuries are very easily detected due to the fact if there's a problem motor functions are instantly hindered....as with anything else if there's a spinal injury, rest assured that you can tell almost immediately.

Quote:

Though I am not condemning you or your actions

Actually that is ALL you were doing in this post. But hey thanks for the heads up, I already said that it isn't the preferred method of handling, I didn't advise it to anyone, nor will I. I'm well aware of what is considered the proper technique for handling, since as I said, I have kept snappers for the last 19 years or so.....but then you weren't there, you didn't see nor assess the situation, you didn't know what the temperament of the turtle in question was...So in the future (this is for anyone else who would like to take a turn at educating me.) If you weren't there....didn't know what was going on....mind your own business.

Thank you much!
~B~

Removed_2815 · 07-01-07, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Snake Guru

Interesting that the picture you posted shows you or whoever pulling the snapper out of the water, when they are at their coolest operating temperature, and fairly benign.

Not that it matters, but since you bring it up, this particular turtle was captured after it was spotted basking and slipped in the water. Cloacal temperature of 33.4°C (on the high end of the thermal preference in this taxon).

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Snake Guru

Ever tried it with one that has been soaking up sun on the road for a few hours?

Yes, many hundreds of times. In fact, most of the animals are captured from the side of the road.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Snake Guru

Guarantee you would be missing your chin...

Just had a look in the mirror and consulted with some nearby people and the consensus is that I am not missing my chin.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Snake Guru

...not only that but I see you are in Ontario, I've been that far north before the snapping turtles you guys have up there are pretty laid back, try coming south and trying the maneuver.

Have sampled throughout their range. Sorry, no behavioural differences in terms of aggression. If you have data supporting your statement then it would make a fantastic article, though not well supported by the scientific community.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Snake Guru

Well it's pretty simple really.....The turtle was put down, the turtle turned gave us a good bye snap, then moved fourth to the water.....Spinal injuries are very easily detected due to the fact if there's a problem motor functions are instantly hindered....as with anything else if there's a spinal injury, rest assured that you can tell almost immediately.

Serious ones, yes. Less serious ones (though potentially serious over time), no, not instantly hindered. I take it you have been monitoring this turtle over the long term prior to making your statement?

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Snake Guru

I have kept snappers for the last 19 years or so.....but then you weren't there, you didn't see nor assess the situation, you didn't know what the temperament of the turtle in question was...

Your captive care of this species amounts to squat in this discussion. No, I was not there, but you posted the picture showing an improper method of handling. I do not see how being there would change anyone's perspective. It's right there in full colour, you've got the turtle by the tail and are not supporting it's weight in any way. The very definition of the improper method of handling this turtle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Snake Guru

So in the future (this is for anyone else who would like to take a turn at educating me.) If you weren't there....didn't know what was going on....mind your own business.

This is a public forum, bud, and you have made it our business by posting. It's as much my business as anyone else's. In addition, when it comes to the well being of our natural heritage, it most certainly is my business.

If you are defending this practice then there is no point in continuing this discussion; however, if you acknowledge that it is improper then that is all that ever needed to be said...

The Snake Guru · 07-01-07, 10:10 PM

Never did defend the practice....only that in some situations it may be needed.

I just love how one picture brings out the best in everyone, without even knowing the backround behind it.

As for the rest.....well whatever you need to believe man, I've said my piece and feel no reason to continue any further.

Feel free to drop by my neck of the woods anytime, I'll show you some snappers that will fix that "chin problem" of yours. I've seen them do some amazing and downright scary things with the long reach they have.

Cheers! LOL
~B~