Handling giant constrictors

steelnink · 08-02-05, 06:12 AM

Alright giant snake owners, i'm here to pose a question about the entire handling debate.
I'm so tired of people getting trashed about their handling techniques with the giants.
The entire issue is the 8ft rule,[ over 8ft there should be 2 people, after 12 to 14ft there should be 3 or more].
I realize that YES, this would make things alot safer, but who has all these extra people when its time to interact with a giant?
So lets cut the b.s and get real, who all is like myself, and handles the big-uns alone?
I welcome everyones opinions and thoughts on this subject.

As a side-note, just because you might have an extra person, doesn't mean that your any safer if they are not comfortable with dealing with constrictors,[running around screaming, with arms flairing about, while your giant decides to give you a hug].

rrrrr · 08-02-05, 07:23 AM

You're missing half the point. Yes, the rule is for your own safety, and what you do with your safety is your business, although I'd hate to read about you in the paper. The rule also contributes to the snake's safety. Large burms need lots of body support when being handled. I'm not sure one person can "handle" a 14 foot burm by him or herself and not put excessive pressure on ribs, vertebrae etc... More arboreal species can be handled with somewhat less support.

steelnink · 08-02-05, 07:39 AM

The safety issue for the giant is a good point, but when held correctly, there is little risk of a 14ft burm attaining an injury.

ReptiZone · 08-02-05, 08:35 AM

Steelnink is corrrect.
If handled properly, they are just like any other snake. Proper handling can also be much safer then having 3 pair of arms in that way. But I use the extra people when I need them, handling for medicinal purposes, of course. I never clean my animals without my wife being at earshot distance. Man, things can happen!

I really think that once you have an animal that is like 15 feet and up, you really need close to 5 people in that room with you and they have to be declared clinically insane. Because in reality it is a job easily accomplished with just two people. If something goes terribly wrong though, you will need the 3 other crazy guys to jump in knowing full well they could get bit by this animal.

So in short, I work alone most of the time, the wife is never very far, but I do know my limits. I know when to ask for help. It really becomes a judgement call that with experience a person can make with confidence.

The ReptiZone
Marc & Patricia Doiron

kevyn · 08-02-05, 03:55 PM

I won't handle anything over 10ft. when I'm alone in the house. Most of the time it's just my wife and I'm confident in her handling abilities too. Again, I do this for my own safety. There are also certain policies that I have to minimize the danger of working with these powerful animals. I don't go into my snake room smelling like rabbits or chicken when it's time to clean cages. I pay very close attention to the snakes behaviour, and train them early with hooks to switch off the feed response. It's also a good idea to have a spray bottle of vinigar or some sort of alcohol near by too. And, to be totally honest, I'm way more concerned with bites than I am with being constricted. Bites from a giant snake can be very serious.

I think abit of common sence applies to this issue too. There is no way it would be safe for one person to handle a 17ft+ snake alone. On the other hand though, I have seen pictures of Bob Clark handling Fluffy with only 2 other people and it's unlikely that any of us have experience with a 26 + ft. retic.

I think it's very important for all giant keepers to be very careful with the snakes they keep. It is way too easy for us to lose the privilage of keeping these animals.

steelnink · 08-02-05, 06:06 PM

I agree with you on that Kevyn.
As i would like to TRY to keep interactions with my burms and retic while my girlfriend is home, i admit, this rarely works.
I keep a spray bottle filled with Jack Daniels nearby,[if not to get a release, it'll kill the pain,lol].
Besides, how could you predict how that second person would re-act?
I know quite a few snake enthusiasts, that are fine with calm snakes, but when confronted with even a younger giant in a ill mood, they wig out.

I'm not saying having a second is ridiculous, it would prove to be alot safer[ problems arise], just find it hard to believe everyone has a second person nearby, during all interactions

ReptiZone · 08-02-05, 08:31 PM

It may sound hard to believe but any self respecting, snake respecting, animal keeper will make arrangements to protect him/herself and protect the hobby.
It is one of the Practices that should be kept along with feeding healthy prey items and housing in properly sized, clean enclosures Etc..Etc.. And such things of equal importance.

steelnink · 08-02-05, 10:36 PM

So what exactly are you implying Marc?
Anyone who keeps these creatures should be married or have a live-in girlfriend, or roommate?
A single person who lives on their own,[as i have] that choose' to maintain these reptiles, has no self-respect for the animals they keep or the hobby, or themselves?
Hold on a second, i have to take a couple anger managment pills.
O.K. now i'll respond to that.
I know a guy through the N.S.H.S, thats been dealing with giants for over 28 years, mainly burms and rocks, and i would not hesitate to say he has forgotten more about snakes then most of us will ever know.
His knowledge"as he puts it" is from hands on experience, not what the books/magazines say.
I would highly doubt this man is suffering from low self-respect for his animals, or anything else for that matter.
Recently, i have been "called out" about my experience in this game.
For a number of years i lived alone and owned giants, and my #1 priority was and always will be the health/care of the reptiles i keep.
I can assure you, that i suffered no form of low self respect[ maybe a little low self-esteem from my back hair,lol].

As i stated earlier, yes i agree that if a person could have someone else with them when dealing with a giant, it would make things a little safer.
Reality wise, i believe this is not always possible.

The idea behind this thread is to point out that all of "common rules",[passed on from books and reptile related caresheets, and lets not forget about the all wise computer", is NOT the be all-end all.

ReptiZone · 08-03-05, 12:17 PM

I don't mean to attack you but if you feel attacked those are your feelings, not mine. All I can say is that some people forget that a picture is just a picture. Maybe Bob Clark and one other guy are in a picture with Fluffy but you can not see the people behind the photographer biting their nails, hoping everything goes well. I have pics of myself holding large green anacondas alone but there are like 6 people behind the scenes watching my every move.

I adapt the rule differently for myself. I can handle a 10 foot snake alone but after 12 feet, I want a extra person for every 4 feet of snake. That is why I construct sectional cages where I can lock the snake in half while I am cleaning the other for days when I am alone. You see I love living my life and I DON'T want to jeopardize it in any way.

The ReptiZone
Marc Doiron

steelnink · 08-03-05, 08:13 PM

No, i can't say i feel attacked Marc.
My only problem i had with your reply was the whole, SELF-RESPECTING part.
I just feel that the whole issue should be more of a focus on a person's experience, then the standard rule of 2 or more people.
I realize a person can have years of experience with giant serpents, and even raising one from a hatchling to 14 or more feet, and there could still be accidents.
If a person use's common sense,[ no lingering prey scents, reading the animals actions, etc] and sets their own personal limits, handling alone, can be quite safe.

If i go to interact with any of mine, and i'm home alone, if they show any signs they don't want to be bothered,i give them what they want.
A trick i've used for years before handling the big-uns was to put on extra aftershave, my neck, my face, even my wrists,[ enough to smell like a $3 hooker,lol].
Yes , having extra hands nearby is wiser, i'm not about to argue that.
Marc, don't mean to put you on the spot, but, what would you do if your wife walked?
Would you make sure you had friends over before any interactions with your giants, or would you get rid of them?

Another old "standard rule of giants" is that people with children should not own constrictors, certainly not giants that could possibly escape and kill small kids.
One could argue that, even in locked enclosures, there is still possibilities of accidents.
Would you abide by these rules?

burmese maniac · 08-03-05, 08:42 PM

I own a 10 foot burmese python whitch I always handle alone. My wife is always near by and there is a big bottle of alcohol near the tank. One important rule for me is to never stick my hands in the enclosure, always use a hook to take him out of his home that way the territorial instinct is taken away. I also own a baby southern scrub python. one day he will be big also and much more of a threat than my burmese and for sure that I will not be able to always have someone with me to deal with him. I guess my wife near me ready to go with alcohol and my hook, I feel plenty safe. don't get me wrong feeling safe does not make me careless. ALWAYS KEEP AN EYE ON YOUR SNAKE. this rule will help you always, because you might see him coming!!!!!!!! p.s. I find this was a great thread to start. we finally get feedback other than the books

peterm15 · 08-03-05, 10:33 PM

first off id like to say good thread..

i dont know anything about these snakes.. ect ect.. but i will say this..

it depends on the snake.. personally i wouldnt handle a 3 foot ball by myself if it was really agressive.. but i would handle a 8-10 foot boa by myself if it were nice.. and still accidents happen.. with larger snakes its better to be safe than sorry.... if you as an idvidual feel it safe to hold these snakes alone go for it.. if not dont.. i wouldnt suggest it to a newbie or someone with a new lage snake.. expert or not.. but imo its always better to take proper percautions than to wind up dead..

its like riding a dirt bike without a helmet.. ive done it.. fell off once.. will never do it again.. better safe than sorry.. with a close call some may feel the same... but there will always be ppl with or without warning that will do it...

it cant happen to me right

SCReptiles · 08-03-05, 11:37 PM

The size formula is relative. There is no 8 foot constrictor in the world that is dangerous to me. I have been criticized throughout my career for not exercising enough safety in handling, wither is be venomous, giant snakes, giant lizards, crocs, big cats, ect. And I have reaped the rewards of my carelessness. I have been bite by everything from rattlesnakes to retics to crocs to massive monitors. Since this discussion focuses on giant snakes, I have been wrapped 3 times. All were burms and at least 15 feet…largest was 18 I think. I never at any time was in fear for my life, it was just a question of getting the animal in position for me to pull off the tail. In the early 90’s a keeper I know was constricted by a 16’ retic and passed out. His wife came home and found him in the coils. She got the guys brother and they unwrapped the snake and brought him back with cpr. He was fine. I think in that exact situation, I would have been fine….but he wasn’t. that is why I say the formula is relative. Perhaps 8’ in dangerous to some people, but not to most. Another keeper I know was hit in the leg by a 14’ burm. The animal wrapped his legs and he was unable to get the thing off him. He had both hands free, so he called 911 and when they arrived he explained how to unwrap it and they emt’s did it. He was fine also. There is no question that large constrictors are dangerous. Reptiles Magazine reports that burms are averages two deaths per year in the US, that is more then captive venomous. Caution should be used, but the amount necessary is different for different people. If that snake in the had wrapped my friends neck rather then his legs, I think he would have died as a result of his caviler attitude toward the snake.

JimmyDavid · 08-04-05, 09:37 AM

I'm with Chuck, here.
First of all, you have to know your animal. By adulthood, snakes have a personality so very well defined that you almost can't go wrong. Tame is tame and those that never tamed down probably never will. there's a small chance that even the tamest of all snakes could go crazy at some point, but that chance also aplies to all living things: dogs, horses, even people. So, if our fear comes from there, then we are never safe near any living creature. But our primordial fear of snakes makes us more suspicious of them than, say, a good looking horse. Now, we all know that horses cause more deaths than snakes every year, don't we? So, if you are asking if i trust myself alone near a giant snake that i know it's tame, the answer is "much more than around some people i know"lol.
If you are dealing with a wild giant constrictor (i didn't use the word mean, because they are simply animals trying to defend themselves) then you have to use common sense. All help is good, and you should know what you are doing.

daiyoukaii · 08-05-05, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCReptiles

The size formula is relative. There is no 8 foot constrictor in the world that is dangerous to me. I have been criticized throughout my career for not exercising enough safety in handling, wither is be venomous, giant snakes, giant lizards, crocs, big cats, ect. And I have reaped the rewards of my carelessness. I have been bite by everything from rattlesnakes to retics to crocs to massive monitors. Since this discussion focuses on giant snakes, I have been wrapped 3 times. All were burms and at least 15 feet…largest was 18 I think. I never at any time was in fear for my life, it was just a question of getting the animal in position for me to pull off the tail. In the early 90’s a keeper I know was constricted by a 16’ retic and passed out. His wife came home and found him in the coils. She got the guys brother and they unwrapped the snake and brought him back with cpr. He was fine. I think in that exact situation, I would have been fine….but he wasn’t. that is why I say the formula is relative. Perhaps 8’ in dangerous to some people, but not to most. Another keeper I know was hit in the leg by a 14’ burm. The animal wrapped his legs and he was unable to get the thing off him. He had both hands free, so he called 911 and when they arrived he explained how to unwrap it and they emt’s did it. He was fine also. There is no question that large constrictors are dangerous. Reptiles Magazine reports that burms are averages two deaths per year in the US, that is more then captive venomous. Caution should be used, but the amount necessary is different for different people. If that snake in the had wrapped my friends neck rather then his legs, I think he would have died as a result of his caviler attitude toward the snake.

I can honestly say you are just lucky. To be put in the situation where a 15ft+ snake is actualy in the process of trying to kill you, you have done something
wrong. and for it to happed three times is just plain foolish. Not saying that you didnt handled being wraped correctly just saying if you had soemone else on the other end it might not would have had the ability to wrap you....

IMO you are playing with loaded guns and have only managed to shoot your foot.