Is taking a dog herping with you a bad idea?

[Reticsrule]

I was just wondering your guys opinions on this because i get lonely when i go herping and i always take my dog with me. Do you think that she might be scaring the snakes away and that's why i didnt find any last season?

[peterm15]

its quite possible. or maybe your just not good.. lol. j/k.. id say take her with sometimes but sometimes dont.. just to see for yourself if shes scarin them away..

[pablo111]

I took my dog herpin once or twice. It makes you really angry at your dog. Invariably, it will frighten things away just as you're about to catch them. I've had my dog run up and squash praying mantises and snakes infront of me.

Even worse, sometimes the dog catches something before you, and you end up with a dead snake or something...

There's just no benefit to bringing a dog. You'll yell at it more than anything.

[marisa]

I agree with pablo....although I might be biased as I have a Jack Russell and her whole life revolves around searching for living things to kill.

Marisa

[Removed_2815]

Domestic animals (dogs, cats, etc.) have absolutely no place in a natural ecosystem. They are predators and there is no benefit to subjecting the natural flora and fauna to their presence.
Ryan

[Reticsrule]

ok maybe ill try not taking her a few times and see what happens.

[ydnic]

RMBolton

Don`t you think that statement is a little harsh?

Not trying to start anything here but growing up on an acreage - I think that a farm or an acreage is the best place for domesticated cat or dog. I doubt that they do anymore hunting that a coyote, fox, or cougar.

Obviously while herping, you wouldn`t want to bring your pet for the obvious statements listed above - but I don`t think a statement like the one made above is justifiable.

Abosolutely No Place in a natural ecosystem kind of a blanket statement.
I think that a naural ecosystem, as you put it, makes a great place for domestic animals in a lot of respects as apposed to a city. Its just my opion though. I know many of the problems a domesticated dog can cause - however many ppl will agree that a farm/acreage is a better place for a dog or cat...

[Fieldnotes]

Sometimes I take my Lab with me when i'm looking for snakes. I have him trained to sit at a distance as soon as i start flipping rocks or boards. The biggest problem I have are the ticks. The ticks are a pain to pull off. So, if you dont have time to pick through your dog's hair following a hike, then it is best just to leave him at home.

[ChurleR]

Actually, what RMBolton said was blatant fact. There are way too many dogs and cats in the United States because they've been ill-cared for, and not only that cats are considered an "invasive" species even though we introduced them. There are smaller populations of bobcats and such that hunt to feed themselves, while "domestic" cats tend to kill for no reason, even if they're being fed well at home. There is a Dr. here at my university who based his entire thesis on domesticated cats and the damage that they do to local fauna. The research shows pretty nasty facts.

[Cake]

Cats are urban terrorists.

Think of it this way. We humans provide them with the necessities of life (food, shelter, and water), and they still kill other animals. You show me a cat which is not kept inside 100% of the time that has not come home with a dead bird, mouse, lizzard or snake. Dogs are not as bad as cats, but they are still natural predators. My two dogs allways chase chipmunks and squirrels while out camping (one of the reasons they are kept tied up).

Dogs and Cats are an introduced alien species to our natural ecosystem, there is no other way to look at it. We get mad when other species are introduced and take measures against them (eg zebra muscles, snakehead fish) but afford domesticated pets such as dogs and cats free will to hunt and kill native species.

[Removed_2815]

Cake and ChurleR have addressed your post nicely, so I will be brief.

Originally posted by ydnic
RMBolton

Don`t you think that statement is a little harsh?

No, not for people who are taught about ecosystem dynamics. It's just the way it is. Look what happened to the Dodo as a result of the introduction of domesticated animals into the natural ecosystem.

Originally posted by ydnic
I think that a farm or an acreage is the best place for domesticated cat or dog. I doubt that they do anymore hunting that a coyote, fox, or cougar.

That's just it, isn't it? The fact that they do any hunting is what throws the whole system out of whack.
You're justifying an invasive predator by comparing it to a naturally occurring predator - that just doesn't fly.

Prey populations are kept in check by their natural predators, if there wasn't a perfect balance then there would be an explosion in the predator population or the prey population. If there's not enough prey then the predators starve, which allows the prey population to increase, which causes the predator population to increase due to increased feeding opportunities, which then decreases the prey population, and so on... We don't see these extremes in natural ecosystems because they are in an ideal balance.
Now, throw in a feral predatory species and I hope you can see how the scales can get tipped...

I'll say again, domestic cats especially and dogs to a lesser extent (though I have seen some pretty savage dogs go out into the field and come back with pheasants, squirrels, etc. all in a single day) have no place in a natural ecosystem.

Ryan

[K1LOS]

Dogs and cats are certainly no worse then humans.

Geoff

[snakehunter]

RMB you are the MAN finally I meet someone with the same veiws; I have cats, but they are fat lazy good for nothings that only kill cat food and MIGHT play with a toy mouse. We actually did tests back when I fed live and the cats where only interested in the mice jsut to see what it was, no predatory acts at all.

I am absolutely infuriated when we go for hikes with the outdoor club and some ritous person decides to bring their dogs; unleashed on the trail. Some times I wish....................mmmmmmm nevermind.

[Removed_2815]

Originally posted by K1LOS
Dogs and cats are certainly no worse then humans.

Yes, humans are certainly a significant source of ecosystem destruction. Keep in mind that it is because of humans that these domesticated animals are allowed to wreak havoc on the wild populations.
Ryan

[ydnic]

Ryan

I understand where you are comming from for sure. Comparing them to natural occuring preditors is some what ignorant.

I still believe that your statement wasn`t completely correct. Agree to disagree I guess. To each their own. I respect you for what you say, however I also don`t think that a statement "wreak havoc" is quite right either. Maybe ontario is different from saskatchewan. IMHO I don`t belive that taking my dog for a walk down to the river, to an off leash park, or owning an acreage with freeroaming pets, wreaks havoc as you put it . And I don`t think collectively all the people who do it are either. Yes I can see the point you are making, yes I can see and understand some of the damage that is done, (my dog steps on a plant it dies, my cat catches a bird it dies, and so on ) but I don`t quite see this as wreaking havoc.

Furthermore, you state that it is a significant amount of destruction we are facing because of our own human acts. I agree that it is also beacuse of humans that domesticated pets are doing damage. However, I don`t beleive that I should keep my pets indoors (from getting fresh air and exercize) because they are not naturally occuring members of the surrounding ecosystem.

Dogs and Cats were not genetically engineered by humans. They were domesticated. They would still be around reguardelss, and considdering what people do, they are the least of all threats to a natural ecosystem. A dog walking through the forest is no more of a destructive matter, than a person walking through the forest. You can say that YOU would never just grab a rabbit and kill it, but I can say that MY DOG would never do that either. That isn`t including all dogs, or all people. You could then say that people don`t belong in a natural ecosystem, but then that would just be unnatrual in itself (plus I would think you had a PETA shirt on under that jacket )
I guess I think that yes, there is destruction, but in my mind I see destruction as breaking a window - and Wreaking Havok as tearing down the whole house.

You also stated that Prey populations are kept in check by their natural predators - that isn`t entirely true. Prey Populations always overpopulate. It is something sometimes uncontrollable. It is a fact, and if you are learning ecosystem dynamics, I would think that you might know that.

Anyways, not to come across as abraisive ( since i`ve been told before that I do) I just wanted to try and state a few reasons why I feel the way I do. I can say I do agree with your intent here in this conversation , I guess I don`t agree with your wording - but maybe I just read it wrong. Although it is nice to see that some people are educating themselves on these matters!