Help with light/heat setup?

[Josh123]

Hi all,

I'm getting really confused with all the different options for heating and lighting. I'm hoping that I could get some opinions on what would be best for the specific set up that I will have. Here's my situation:

1. My beardie's terrarium will most likely be 59" L x 20" D x 17" H.

2. The terrarium will have the opening on the top, which will be covered with a screen that could support the light fixture(s) sitting directly on the screen.

3. If possible, I'd like a Mercury Vapor bulb that can do UVB and heat all in one. This would mean that the point where I'd place the light fixture would be the basking spot and the "UV spot". (I'm rethinking, this, though, and may just go with an externally-ballasted MVB and a separate basking light.)

4. I'd like to have a good solid climbing branch in the basking spot so my beardie can regulate his temps with a lot of vertical choice. If I read correctly that some MVB lights should be a minimum of 12" away from the dragon, that doesn't really give any vertical room. I could only give a climbing branch that goes 5" up. For a nearly two-foot dragon, that isn't much.

5. Naturally, I'd like to spend as little as possible, without sacrificing optimal conditions for my beardie. (Especially over the long-term. Things that last longer, and so are cheaper over time, are preferable to cheap but short-lived solutions.)

6. I live in Canada, and shipping across the border (and currency exchange, etc.) is a pain, so I'd like to find somewhere in Canada where I can order the light from.


So if anyone would like to share their ideas of what the best set-up would be, (especially a good place to purchase from) I'd really appreciate it. And please point out anything that I've got wrong. I'm still learning.

[tHeGiNo]

First off, whether you decide on a MVB as your UVB source or not, I would highly recommend having fluorescent lighting (be it a UVB bulb or your typical fluorescent house tube, either way there must be a UVB source). The fluorescent lighting provides the UVA rays which encourages your dragons activity. One heat source just does not light the enclosure sufficiently.

As far as a MVB bulb having to be one foot away from the dragon, I am guessing this is for heating purposes, as in being any closer then one foot would be too hot. Depending on the age of your dragon and its personal preference, your going to want a basking spot temperature ranging from 90 - 115 °F. To achieve this, your going to need to raise or lower the height of the basking spot to the heat source respectively.

Port Credit Pet Centre in Mississauga, Ontario carries these bulbs, and I am sure they would have no problem shipping the product out to you. You can phone them at 905-274-8018. I hope that helped, and feel free to ask any other questions or concerns you may have.

[Josh123]

I'm leaning towards an MVB for UVB, and a separate heating lamp or two.

But I'd still need a fluorescent light for UVA? I haven't read this anywhere else.

[tHeGiNo]

I am a little confused as to the logic here. The MVB is both a heating source and a UVB source, which is the whole concept of the bulb - it provides both necessities. A separate light or two would therefore not be required.

Let me clarify what I was tryin to say in regards to the use of a fluorescent light. Having the one bulb, the MVB, as both the UVB and heating source would suggest that you no longer need the fluorescent UVB light. Your enclosure would then have only the one light, which is lighting only one particular area of the enclosure. Adding the fluorescent light for UVA (the visible wavelength) promotes activity in that it lights the cage much more efficiently then a single heat source, which again lights only one isolated area of the cage.

[Josh123]

Originally posted by tHeGiNo
I am a little confused as to the logic here. The MVB is both a heating source and a UVB source, which is the whole concept of the bulb - it provides both necessities. A separate light or two would therefore not be required.

There are two types of MVB's (at least those sold be reptileuv.com) -- internally-ballasted ones (which produce heat) and externally-ballasted which produce virtually no heat. The advantage of the externally ballasted ones is that they last significantly longer and are less prone to failure.

Edit: This thread over at reptile rooms suggest that MVB's do produce UVA.

Edit: And the recommended minimum distance from MVB's has nothing to do with heat. At short range, they can possibly produce too much UVB.

[peterm15]

in all reality it would be cheaper just to use a floresent and a heat lamp.. the cage im building has it all mounted inside ( 1 floresent and 2 ceremic fixtures) heat lamp cost like 4 bucks then a ceremic heat lamp ( my room gets cold) like 30 ( but it lasts like 6 years) and 30 bucks for the tube, ok maybe not cheaper to begin with but in the long run, it would look nicer to.. im not big on the mvb's as they get VERY hot and its easier to burn the herp or your house.. and there pretty new so who know the long term effects.. plus you have to worry about too close or too far ect ect.. just go for a 5.0 repti sun or a 8.0 exo-terra. and a heal lamp..

[Josh123]

Externally-ballasted MVB's produce virtually no heat. And they last much longer than fluorescent bulbs, making them cheaper in the long run.

Also, the UVB_Meter_Owners group have found the MVB's to be vastly superior to the fluorescent bulbs. Check out their file archive; they've done a lot of research, and I've been persuaded by their numbers.

The latest info seems to indicate that a single fluorescent bulb does not emit optimal UVB for bearded dragons.

Since posting this thread originally (on a few different forums), I've had advice and done a lot of reading. I'm probably going to go with reptileuv.com, despite having to ship internationally. I'm going to suspend the MVB above the tank to get the optimal distance from the basking spot, whatever height it turns out to be.

If anyone knows of products comparable to reptileuv.com's MegaRay bulbs that are available in Canada, I'd love to know.

[tHeGiNo]

And the recommended minimum distance from MVB's has nothing to do with heat. At short range, they can possibly produce too much UVB

Are you sure about that? Not to say you are wrong, but I find it particularly hard to believe that a bulb can produce more UVB rays then the sun, I say the sun as that would be their natural source. But what do I know, I will do more research into the bulbs tomorrow.

Edit: This thread over at reptile rooms suggest that MVB's do produce UVA.

I think you misunderstood me. Let me start by saying ANY light that you can see is UVA light. It is the visible wavelength. What I was trying to say was that it may not light your enclosure adequately.

The latest info seems to indicate that a single fluorescent bulb does not emit optimal UVB for bearded dragons.

Yep, this has been known for quite a while now. Fluorescent UVB tubes give off very little UVB rays in comparison to their natural source, the sun. In addition, the little rays that are present are easily filtered out if you are to put a screen or any other material under the light. Whatever the case, natural sunlight is the best source for UVB rays - of course it is not always available.

**EDIT**
I did a quick google search and found that the average MVB produces 50-70uW/cm2 of UVB, where the sun produces in the hundreds. With that in mind, I do not think it is possible for them to produce "too much UVB" for your dragon. Again, I will look further into this tomorrow.

[Josh123]

Originally posted by tHeGiNo
Are you sure about that? Not to say you are wrong, but I find it particularly hard to believe that a bulb can produce more UVB rays then the sun, I say the sun as that would be their natural source. But what do I know, I will do more research into the bulbs tomorrow.

I say this only because the MVB lamps that produce no heat have the same distance requirements. (Compare the EB vs. SB lines at reptileuv.com). I'll see if I can get more info for us. I agree that the whole sun/artificial thing makes this seem unlikely.

Originally posted by tHeGiNo
I think you misunderstood me. Let me start by saying ANY light that you can see is UVA light. It is the visible wavelength. What I was trying to say was that it may not light your enclosure adequately.

Okay, I did indeed misunderstand. My apologies. I thought you were saying that with a MVB a fluorescent bulb would be specifically needed for UVA.

Originally posted by tHeGiNo
Yep, this has been known for quite a while now. Fluorescent UVB tubes give off very little UVB rays in comparison to their natural source, the sun. In addition, the little rays that are present are easily filtered out if you are to put a screen or any other material under the light. Whatever the case, natural sunlight is the best source for UVB rays - of course it is not always available.

I meant that a single fluorescent bulb isn't optimal compared to MVB's, or even a pair of fluorescents. I'm told that the UVB_Meter_Owners group is recommending the use

[Josh123]

**EDIT**
I did a quick google search and found that the average MVB produces 50-70uW/cm2 of UVB, where the sun produces in the hundreds. With that in mind, I do not think it is possible for them to produce "too much UVB" for your dragon. Again, I will look further into this tomorrow. [/B]

Distance makes a big difference, though. At a very close distance, MVB's have been measured producing 1700 uW/cm2. Check out the file archives at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UVB_Meter_Owners/

Check out this diagram. I'm not sure if you can access it without a membership, but signing up is free and instantaneous:

http://f2.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/sAgUQqy.../UVmegaray.gif