Anyone else hear about this?

[Lindze]

I was in a chat and someone told me about this. Another kick in the butt for herpers.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...ck=1&cset=true

[Dr. Bryan Fry]

Can you post the text here? The site requires registration and I loath registering.

Fangs ;-)
Bryan

[BoidKeeper]

Here you go Dr. Fry,
State bags poisonous snake seller, officials say

By Lolly Bowean
Tribune staff reporter
Published January 12, 2005


Caught in a sting, a Lake Zurich man was arrested last month after he tried to sell two poisonous copperhead snakes and a puff adder for $300 to undercover authorities in the parking lot of the Gurnee Mills mall, authorities said Tuesday.

Authorities found nine more poisonous snakes in the home of Kenneth R. Jaros, 23, who was charged with possession of dangerous animals, said Sgt. Scott Siddens of the Illinois Department of Natural Resources. Jaros also was charged with commercialization of state resources, in this case the unauthorized sale of the reptiles, authorities said. Both charges are misdemeanors.

"There are people throughout the country who are enthusiasts of reptiles," Siddens said. "Some people steer off into the venomous snakes. If they do, there are laws they have to comply with."

Authorities learned about Jaros through an Internet site, where he was trying to sell poisonous snakes, Siddens said.

Department of Natural Resources officials posed as buyers and arrested Jaros on Dec. 16 after he turned over the snakes in the parking lot, Siddens said. Gurnee police helped with the arrest.

It is illegal to own or sell a poisonous snake in Illinois without a U.S. Department of Agriculture permit, Siddens said. Snakes also are regulated under the Illinois Dangerous Animals Act.

A copperhead can be up to 3 feet long, is reddish or copper in color and isn't considered aggressive, officials said. A puff adder, common in Africa, can be yellow, gray and brown and up to 6 feet long. Both snakes possess a deadly venom.

Authorities don't know where Jaros got the reptiles, Siddens said.

"He had them in cages," Siddens said. "The gentleman was very cooperative in turning them over so we could get them to the appropriate people's hands to care for them."

In his home, authorities found two rhino vipers, two West African gaboon vipers and five eyelash vipers, Siddens said.

Jaros couldn't be reached for comment.

In recent years, the Natural Resources Department has arrested several people for illegally owning poisonous snakes, Siddens said.

"We don't make a dozen arrests a year based on these things," he said. "But there is a market out there, albeit an underground market, for people who collect venomous snakes."

The confiscated snakes were turned over to an agency that Siddens declined to identify.

Jaros, released on a signature bond, could face up to a year in jail and a $4,000 fine if convicted. He is scheduled to return to court March 2.


Copyright © 2005, Chicago Tribune

PS
I loved the episods of Snake Wranglers with you and the wife in them. Very exiciting stuff.
Cheers,
Trevor

[ChurleR]

"But there is a market out there, albeit an underground market, for people who collect venomous snakes."

...........

This article is basicly insulting throughout of people who tend to "veer towards" hots. Responsible keepers usually aren't people who carry the "OmG VENOm R k00l!" mentality... they're either in love, bent on scientific study, or a mixture of the two.

[SerpentLust]

*smirk* I've never heard of a 'poisonous' copperhead before. Are they more or less deadly than the regular venomous ones? Ok sorry bad joke.

Anyways, at least they didn't completely bash the reptile enthusiasts. I've seen much worse...but also much better too

Jenn

[marisa]

Poisonous and venemous are actually the same thing accourding to most dictionaries. R M Bolton was kind enough to point that out before.
5 entries found for poisonous.
poi·son·ous Audio pronunciation of "poisonous" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (poiz-ns)
adj.

1. Capable of harming or killing by or as if by poison; toxic or venomous.
2. Containing a poison.
3. Marked by apparent ill will: “poisonous hate... in his eyes” (Ernest Hemingway).

--------------------------------------------



Marisa

[loveispretend]

SOunds like that particular herper needed a kick in the butt.

[Gregg M]

Poison needs to be injested or absorbed through the skin or mucus membranes......

Venom needs to be injected or put directly into the blood stream in order for it to be effective......

The delivery system and type of toxin, is what classifies an animal as venomous or poisonous......

[Removed_2815]

Originally posted by Gregg M
Poison needs to be injested or absorbed through the skin or mucus membranes......

Not true. A poison is simply a substance that causes injury, illness, or death, especially by chemical means. The definition carries with it no connotations specifying mechanism of delivery.

Originally posted by Gregg M
Venom needs to be injected or put directly into the blood stream in order for it to be effective......

Not quite true. Venom is simply a poisonous secretion of an animal, such as a snake, spider, or scorpion, usually transmitted by a bite or sting; a poison. Note the use of the words poisonous and poison in the definition of venom.

Originally posted by Gregg M
The delivery system and type of toxin, is what classifies an animal as venomous or poisonous......

It's all about semantics and there's too much overlap in the definitions for it to be as cut and dry as you've lain out. What you've stated is what most people believe to be the difference between the two words, when in reality there is no difference. A dart frog can be regarded as venomous (note the synonym poisonous, which is really all that needs to be said) because it is an animal that secretes and transmits a poison/venom (as per the definition) and a Gaboon viper can be regarded as poisonous (note the use of the word venomous in the definition) because it contains a poison capable of harming or killing (as per the definition).

For all intents and purposes, venom/poison and venomous/poisonous are correctly interchangeable.
Ryan

[Gregg M]

You can not be evenomated by a poison dart frog...... They do not even produce their own toxins.... Like I said there is a differance and the two should not be interchanged..... If you go by the dictionary, the two are the same but when you talk about animals they are not...... To be envenomated, it has to enter the blood sream directly..... ie; sting, fang, grooved tooth. barb...... You will not be envenomated if you rub snake venom on your skin or ingest snake venom..... Unless ofcorse you have an open wound on your shin or in your digestive tract..... I feel that the dictionary should be revamped because the delivery system has everything to do with an animal being venomous or poisonous.....
Give me one example of where it is overlapping in any situation...... It is pretty cut and dry......

[Removed_2815]

Originally posted by Gregg M
You can not be evenomated by a poison dart frog......

I think you just made up another word.

[Gregg M]

LOL.... I do that from time to time.... Atleast I know you actually read what I write........ What I ment to write was envenomated

[Dr. Bryan Fry]

Hi RMBolton,

Actually, there is a very clear difference between poison and venom. It has to due with the mode of delivery. A poison is a toxin that exerts its effects through absorption or ingestion while a venom is a toxin that is delivered through the dermal layers via a specialised delivery mechanism. So examples of poisonous animals would be poison dart frogs (absorption) or pufferfish (ingestion). Examples of venomous would include scorpions (stinger), blue-ringed octopus (beak), stonefish (dorsal spines) and snakes (fangs).

Sometimes the same toxin may be used in a poison or a venom. Tetrodotoxin for example is one of the major toxins in poison dart frog and puffer fish poison but it is also the dominant toxin in blue-ringed octopus venom. So, a blue-ringed octopus could also be considered as a poisonous animal if someone barbequed it up and ate it. They would then have the same effects as happens to the clueless tourists here in Australia who routinely get stuck in the hospital after eating pufferfish. They should have known not to eat it simply because anything that looks that ugly can't be good for you! Natural selection at work ;-)

Cheers
Bryan

[Removed_2815]

oops

[Dr. Bryan Fry]

Venom and poison are not synonymous and dictionaries that make them such are over simplifying things and the dictionaries are incorrect in this case. The mode of natural delivery is of paramount importance. Linguists who argue otherwise obviously have little understanding of biology.

Out of curiousity, why would you state spiderlings are poisonous and adults being venomous? Spiderlings are venomous in that they have fully functioning venom glands and fangs and deliver the toxins via this apparatus.

Cheers
Bryan