Please help identify Elaphe sp.

[incarnus]

A student in my mother's 7th grade science class brought this snake to her.

I saw it and initally thought it to be an E. obsoleta spiloides, but it lacks several of that subspecies' identifying marks.

After looking at a few guides, I'm more confused than when I started. The coloration reminds me of a grey E. guttata guttata, but the blacks spots on the underside point to it belonging to the obsoleta group.

Anyhow I'm going to attemp to attach some pics, thanks in advance for any help.

[dave68]

My guess would be a juvenile racer perhaps?

Dave

[lolaophidia]

That's a racer, for sure. Not sure what part of the country you're in to determine the subspecies. The large, slightly hooded, reddish eyes give them away... A grey or black rat snake is going to have more of a silver brown or grey eye.
Here's a few pics of a yearling I saw in Tampa FL (Southern Black Racer) that had lost almost all of it's pattern. You could barely see a bit of the blotching in bright sunshine.

[JD@reptiles]

just a little black racer. coluber constrictor constrictor

[wetlander]

NIce little racer. Look at the length of the tail from the vent to the tip! Elaphe never has long of a tail

[incarnus]

Thanks!

Indeed, the color of the eye and the lack of the horizontal black stripe behind the eye were what suggested to me that it wasn't a grey rat, but I had no idea juvenile black racers had this kind of coloration. It looked to me alot like the pattern I've seen on red rats in the past. I wasn't aware of the difference in the length of the tail, but now that you mention it I can see what you mean.

I'm sure it must be a Southern Racer, like the one in the photos. I'm in Jacksonville (Northeast) Florida, and I've seen them here before, but never a juvenile.

Unfortunately, the snake died last night. It looked to have some puncture wounds on the neck when I got it (from the looks of it, I imagine it was probably brought to the student by her cat), but it acted fine for a few days before turning up stiff this morning.

In any case, thanks for all of your help, I'm very glad to have found a nice herp forum.

[Vanan]

Originally posted by JD@reptiles
just a little black racer. coluber constrictor constrictor

Black racers are Coluber constrictor priapus, ya bum!

[Removed_2815]

Northern Black Racers are Coluber constrictor constrictor and Southern Black Racers are Coluber constrictor priapus.

[Removed_2815]

Edit: double post