Just lost my corn...

[RF23]

Ok, first post and its a sad one, but any advice or info would be appreciated. Please bear with the long post.

We've had 2 female corns in a tank for 5 years (4 for the younger)...the tank is 4ft by 1.5ft x 1.5ft...heat mat at one end covering 1/3 of total tank, bark to hide under along length...40w bulb over heat mat...water bowl at other end. High vent on warm end low vent at the other. wood chips substrate (not cedar).
Tank is in the living room on a wooden floor on felt pads out of sunlight.

Recently the elder corn stopped eating. We usually feed them every 2 weeks on one thawed frozen large mouse each. Sometimes she stopped eating before going into a shed cycle, so that wasnt deemed unusual. But she didnt go into a shed cycle...
Come week 4 we tried again, but she didnt eat again...we left it for another week. Week 5 we tried again, we tried warming, squeezing and waggling the mouse, but she just turned 180 and wandered off...leaving it in there she ignored it.
Being concerned we looked for advice, and being in the UK its not thick on the ground with snake vets...we tracked down a local vet after talking to the shop we bought her at from young. Between conversations on the phone we suspected she may be gravid, either phantom or properly (perhaps the other female wasnt)...this was added to by the fact that she seemed to be slightly overwieght in her lower 1/2...like she had fed on 2 mice recently.
The vet was concerned, he ruled out pregnancy, and suspected constipation...he suggested to wait and see if she should feed on a pinkie, or perhaps try force feed.
The next day she seemed to be looking weak, we had been giving her warm baths but sometimes she just coiled up in them and didnt move...we went again, but there was a different vet on duty who recommended parafin as a remedy...20 ml went in, a small amount of faeces came out.
The next night she really went down hill, looking limp...emergency vet time now, no messing...xrays showed nothing obvious or odd, just nothing...the emergency vet also suspected constipation and went on a recommendation from a manual to give something orally to induce movement (cant remember what it was called).
The next day she seemed much brighter, a warm bath (nothing had passed) saw her swimming up and down, but afterwards she was weak again. Again she drank while in my hand (unusual).
After popping out for an hour or so after placing her back in the warm end, a panicked girlfriend met me at the door. She was writhing around, almost fitting...! She went limp afterwards. Breathing seemed to have stopped but her heart was beating.
A quick call and a 50 mile drive at about 100mph to the nearest available expert in the land but she didnt make the journey...

We are both absolutely gutted.

An autopsy found a large amount of fat deposits inside her abdomen, which contained abysses, some of which had burst and there was some haemoraging...there were also 3 odd lumps which also had the vet confused...about 1cm around and my best description would be that they were exactly like chicken livers, even down to the same consistancy when cut. I think these were found in the body cavity. He said he had only seen something like this in monitor lizards.
His suggestion was that she was overfed or that vitamin deficiency caused by vitamins in frozen mice breaking down could have contributed. He didnt think anything the other vets did caused any harm, but it didnt help, but he said with the haemoraging, even if she had been opened up she wouldnt had made it. All her organs looked ok...the vet said the absysses and haemoraging had done it.

She was 5 1/4 ft, and weighed 615g. Her spine was visible all the way down, except after feeding and recently when she looked like she just hadnt cleared her meal...she certainly wasnt what i would callfat looking, certainly not like i have see pics of other snakes. She was about the same thinkness as if i put my thumb and forefinger togther and make the OK sign.
She was a slow calm snake, almost soppy in tolerance, very cute...she certainly seemed slower than her roommate, but we figured it was her way. She also adored a cardboard poster tube along with her roommate, which ran the length of the tank.

Her roommate is thinner, but was fed the same...in fact she never refuses food, but she is more sprightly...more "on the ball"...one thing the elder one didn't do properly was hold onto your arm...she always nearly fell off and rarely held on with her lower half enough to support her own wieght. She was fed in the tank because she was docile, the other removed for feeding in a seperate tank.

The vet has recommended we watch the other one's wieght, and supplied some vitamin supplements, but the original vet who saw her seemed to think she was a healthy snake and wasnt concerned about her.

So my questions are:

Was she overwieght/over fed? 615g for 5 n bit foot.
Was her slow outlook on life a contribution/cause?
Could the haemoraging been caused by the vets handling (feeling for eggs) or remedies?
Would there have been any earlier warning signs that we should have picked up?
Is there anything else we could have done?
What were those lumps?
Is this something that just built up over 5 years or is it something that could have just gone wild in the last few weeks?
Is there anything in a snake tank that can make them more inactive than they should be?..(we tended to not to disturb them unless the looked like they were up for a wander...)

Like i say we're both gutted, and wondering if there is anything we could have done or avoided doing...I would give anything not have gone through a weekend like that and to see her go through what i assume could only be a painful end.

Due to her character she will be totally irreplaceable.

[Rubix]

I'm only an amateur myself, I can't offer anything but consolidation... I know I would be devastated to lose my corn that way. I hope you're able to find some answers here, best of luck.

Rubix

[Queensnake29]

I was really sad to hear your story. All I can sad is that you gave her the best life possible and she was lucky to have such great people take care of her.

[vanderkm]

The lumps found in the abdomen sound like they may have been eggs that were in the end stages of re-absorption - possibly from a previous year or maybe even from this year. Infertile eggs (slugs) are dark yellow, firm and almost waxy when passed, and it is likely that if they were retained and the remaining liquid was re-absorbed from them they would become darker and firmer in appearance.

We have been suprised at many of the snakes we have autopsied that they have large deposits of body fat even when the snake is emaciated from chroinc disease. I suspect there may be issues with proper fat metabolism, perhaps similar to fatty liver syndrome in some other species that may relate to regular consistent feeding and insufficient exercise. Sounds like your girls had a large environment, but often captive animals won't make use of space if they don't need to.

The abscesses may have been a primary infection (possible sources include extension from damage to gut wall or liver, or ascending from oviduct infection but that would be more likely in a snake that had laid eggs), but it is just as likely that they were deterioration in fat without a bacterial component. See that in some species - possibly related to abnormal pancreas or liver function. These deteriorated areas are more prone to bleeding and it wouldn't have taken much trauma to induce hemorrhage.

In terms of early warning signs - not likely, reptiles - like birds - often show very few clinical signs of internal illness and die without warning only once the disease is advanced.

In terms of what you might change for the remaining girl - pretty speculative, but consider more exercise (active handling at least weekly), letting her go longer between meals (more 'hunting' time) maybe up to a couple weeks. Smaller meals - large mice tend to be older and have more body fat - often retired breeders. Select young, lean mice and make her work for them - a bit of a struggle to encourage wrapping the prey doesn't hurt for exercise (and may be 'fun' for the snake - add some excitement to the 'hunt').

It is tough to lose a pet you have had for so long - sorry to hear of your loss, but in most of these cases there is not much you could have done to treat them.

mary v.

[RF23]

thanks everyone for the kind words, info and advice...

its interest what you said,vanderkm, about the liver. The vet said most of the organs looked healthy, however he did point out that the liver looked as if it wasnt so healthy...i cant remember specifically what he said but i remember him mentioning it along the way. Your points about a high fat diet seem to tie in with his comments as well.

I'm going to be more proactive about the other girl's activity. I think we perhaps er'd on the side of caution with handling and disturbance, not wanting to induce stress, assuming that the animals would regulate their own activity more. I guess we should have remembered that they are captive animals and dont have the natural pressures of a wild animal that would induce more activity.

The other is more naturally active anyway, but we're going to make a point making sure she has more activity. I think we'll finish off the large mice we have left and drop down to medium for the next batch.

I'm wondering whether to get another hatchling and wait a year or two before being able to house them together again or perhaps pick up another mature snake...the tank looks a little empty with just the one little character in it...