walking sticks?

Thrush · 09-24-04, 05:41 PM

Has anyone tried feeding stickbugs to their chameleon? I saw a picture of a cham eating one, but I was wondering if it would be an interesting treat?

Thrush

dank7oo · 09-24-04, 05:52 PM

Well I havent actually done it (because where onearth would I buy them) but yes, they can be used as chameleon food ... if that was your question.

Jason

DragnDrop · 09-24-04, 07:15 PM

Been there, done that

I used to use the common walking stick, Carausius morosus (someone told me they were the almost identical B. extradentatum). When I had too many very young Extatosoma tiaratum they were eaten too, but they get too big and tough too fast, so only the very young or males would work.

There's very little info on nutritional value in walking sticks, so I played it safe and didn't use them as a staple part of their diet. The chams did love them, and would actually run like crazy to get them. They worked great as treats, probably the best treats I've ever used. Even picky eaters went nuts over the C. morosus.

Walking sticks are illegal to own in Canada and probably the US too. If you look around you'll probably find a lot of people keeping them. Most commonly kept species breed like rabbits or worse, so there's a good chance you can get some eggs or even insects themselves. I know of a few people who still have them (I don't keep them anymore, sorry, can't help

).

roocat71 · 09-24-04, 07:16 PM

Funny you should mention them. I found one on my deck yesterday. My cham ate it today while I was at work. I found part of its head and two legs at the bottom of the cage still moving.

-roo

Brock · 09-24-04, 07:55 PM

They're a popular treat with the experienced cham keepers. I've also kept C. morosus (Indian Walking Stick). The other most common feeders are the pink wings and the vietnamese stick insects. Here's an awesome species list with pictures and stuff: http://www.ifrance.com/phasme/anglai...hesanglais.htm

The best phasmid and insect guy to talk to is Shenton: stan@cyberion.com

He lives in Vancouver, BC. He also has two female panthers for sale if anyone is interested. I think they are Tamatave, but you might want to double check with him. He's got a hell of a lot of stick insects, both eggs and the insects themselves, so I'd give him a shot.

Start out with a good size colony, keep them like actual pets, and after they all die, still maintain the cage as if they were still in there, and you'll have hundreds of eggs hatch within a few months. Of course the tempurature has the greatest effect on incubation times. You'll want to feed them rose leaves or bramble or strawberry leaves, blackberry leaves are the most popular food of choice. In the winter you can feed them romaine lettuce with no problems. They live for about 8 months or so and they lay like 10 eggs a day from 4 months to death. They're, what's the word? Where there's only females in the entire species, males are very rare, and females will PARTHENOGENETIC, yeah that's it, so you don't have to worry about breeding them.

-Brock

Brock · 09-24-04, 07:57 PM

And yeah they are illegal to keep because of their parthenogenesis and they basically even eat when they sleep. They're intense. SO NEVER DUMP OUT OLD SUBSTRATE OR LET THEM GO!!!

-Brock

CarlC · 09-27-04, 07:45 AM

I don't know about up in Canada but in the states they are illegal because they are a severe threat to the agriculture industry.
Most species are NOT parthenigenic. The common species you see available are yes but with over 1500 species of Phasmid they are the minority.
Most species have very specific food needs that are hard to meet in North America. While in Madagascar last year I found something like 15+ differant species. The only way we could identify most of the species was to know what plant or tree they were on.
The PSG, Phasmid Study Group http://www.stickinsect.org.uk/ , is out of England and they have done extensive work on a numbering system to identify species. Another great site with tons of info is http://www.irms.freeserve.co.uk/ On this site you will find the species listed with their known food preferances and alot of pictures of the differant species in culture.

Carl

DragnDrop · 09-27-04, 08:41 AM

One of my favourite sites is Bugs in Cyberspace There's a lot of info on phasmids (walking sticks) and manitds (praying mantis) as well as other bugs/insects.

CarlC · 09-27-04, 09:57 AM

I forgot about Peter's site. Yes it is a great site.

Carl

ydnic · 10-08-04, 04:53 PM

thats weird because i live in Saskatchewan and they are for sale at petland right on the counter - so is there different types or something because how can petland sell them if they are illegal

DragnDrop · 10-08-04, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ydnic
thats weird because i live in Saskatchewan and they are for sale at petland right on the counter - so is there different types or something because how can petland sell them if they are illegal

They are for sale quite often, but still illegal. If sold as feeders they're apparently okay, and the vendor can always sell them as that. It's beyond his/her/their control if you use them as pets. Enforcing the phasmid trade is tricky since they do have a legitimate use. If you mail them or ship them in any way and the inspectors find your package you could be in trouble beyond your wildest imagination. I used to be on a phasmid mailing list where we were treated to regular updates by a member in Canada who got caught when the postal autorities opened a package of phasmid eggs that he received from Europe. It's quite legal to ship them around the EU countries, so he didn't worry about ordering any and didn't check our regulations. He ended up getting fined several thousand dollars.

I too have seen phasmids for sale many times, but they were always labelled as feeder insects. That's one loophole the vendors use, and there are probably many more. However, from what I've been told and have found out on my own, shipping them is illegal no matter what their intended use is. Of course we all know that they had to have been shipped to the store, but no one is asking nor telling, just assume Scotty beamed them onto the store shelf. (It's only illegal if you get caught ... but why chance it? )

Mantids are predatory so they aren't enforced the same way. Some are legal, some aren't, you'd have to check your regulations. They too make good feeders, but are trickier to raise so they're not as popular to use as food.