problem feeders?

[ilikebeer]

since everyone says that most BP are problem feeders....just wondering....who hasnt had a hard time feeding their ball....
and in general what is the ratio of problem feeders (ie..1 out of 10 or 3 out of every 10 is a bad feeder ect.)

[mykee]

Hatchlings or adults? None fo my adults are problem feeders, they all go off food in the winter, but if you know ball pythons in general, that's not a 'problem" persay, it's a hurdle. So I'm 0/34.

[Tim_Cranwill]

I'm 1/35... but that's only if you count the 1 that prefers hamsters to rats! lol

I used to be 50/50 until I got my setup nailed down though.

[Bristen]

Originally posted by Tim_Cranwill I'm 1/35... but that's only if you count the 1 that prefers hamsters to rats! lol

I used to be 50/50 until I got my setup nailed down though.

Tim, if you don't mind, could you expand what was wrong with your initial setup and what you did to correct it? Perhaps some of us can learn from your experiences?

Thanks,
Bristen.

[Tim_Cranwill]

For sure, Bristen!

I think the main thing was that I got my temps nailed down. To do that, I needed to make a lot of changes though.

1. I built a new rack with belly heat and sweater-box bins instead of back heat and under-bed bins.

2. I got a REAL thermostat and ditched the dimmers.

3. I started to offer the odd live meal. *gasp!* Yup, I said the "L" word. I watch closely and never leave the two animals unattended though. All of the snakes eat both live and f/t without ANY problems. They take down the live ones within seconds and 99.8% of the time, the rat’s mouth is in the snake’s mouth. It’s almost like they were MADE to eat live food! lol j/k

4. I started to use a night time temperature drop. My hot spot goes from 95F in the day to 86F at night, each temp for 12 hours. I will shorten the 95F starting in November.

Now, I'm not sure which change had the most effect because I made them all at once but there was a night and day difference in the feeding responses.

I'll put it this way; I used to thaw 2 or 3 small rats every few days for the 13 balls eating that size food and go down the line. Almost without fail, I would end up feeding one of them to my big male carpet python because my bps would NOT eat.

NOW I thaw 5-7 every few days for those same 13 snakes and usually end up thawing a couple MORE. It has been NUTS!!!!

The time of year could also be playing a factor too. So many changes all in a short period of time makes it tough to see exactly WHAT made the difference. Whatever t was, it was worth it!

[smeagel]

i have noticed a huge change in my balls feeding behaviour too. I did change from aquariums to rubbermaids. They eat on a shcedule now. But like Tim said it may also have something to do with the time of year. My females are especially eating like crazy

[marisa]

I don't have any "problem" feeders.

I don't think ANY ball is a problem feeder. All balls go off feed, and our picky. That's just their nature. It's not a problem, its the way it is.

But one thing I have found that helps if mine start getting a little picky...I offer them food less often. A month of only feeding once every two weeks usually gets them good and hungry again.

Marisa

[Tim_Cranwill]

One more thing is I stopped feeding large meals. I found if I fed a large meal (1.5x the girth +), they wouldn't eat for 2-3 weeks sometimes. Now I feed them all small rats and they eat more often and have less "waste"... or so it seems.

[Vengeance]

Now do you feed small rats even to your adults?

[Bristen]

Hi Tim, thanks for replying... I have some troublesome feeders and I want to be sure it's not something that I'm doing.... now let's go through the list if you don't mind

[...]
I think the main thing was that I got my temps nailed down. To do that, I needed to make a lot of changes though.

ok, temperatures... I have a space heater in the snake room on a thermostat... ambient air night time drop doesn't get lower than 78F or 79F in the summer, and daytime ambient daytime high can reach up to 85F or 88F depending on how hot it was outside... hotspots are currently constant at 92F to 95F (depending what susbstrate is used in a particular tub). Cool end of tubs is room temperature and I use belly heat for hot spots.. planning to cool for winter and kill hot spots at night on timer...

1. I built a new rack with belly heat and sweater-box bins instead of back heat and under-bed bins.

what's wrong with "under-bed bins"? I use Sterilite tubs.. pictures can be found here (for the next week or two before they close my account):

http://community.webshots.com/photo/...07629464OeNFGg
http://community.webshots.com/photo/...07629483jhiHlY

I don't remember the exact dimensions or the volume of the tubs, but I could find that out because the stickers are still on them... is that not a good setup? I thought a lot of the "big guys" used setups like that?

2. I got a REAL thermostat and ditched the dimmers.

ok, that's fair.. I can understand that making a difference.. do you have one thermostat per tub or per rack? if you have one per rack, where do you put the probe? in the top tub?

3. I started to offer the odd live meal. *gasp!* Yup, I said the "L" word. I watch closely and never leave the two animals unattended though. All of the snakes eat both live and f/t without ANY problems. They take down the live ones within seconds and 99.8% of the time, the rat’s mouth is in the snake’s mouth. It’s almost like they were MADE to eat live food! lol j/k

I can easily see that being a help.. I don't have access to live, so I won't be able to deal with that, but I'll keep it in mind I guess...

4. I started to use a night time temperature drop. My hot spot goes from 95F in the day to 86F at night, each temp for 12 hours. I will shorten the 95F starting in November.

I was planning to do a nightime drop for the room's ambient air temperature and kill the hotspots at night on a timer... I thought many were able to get good results doing this??

[...] NOW I thaw 5-7 every few days for those same 13 snakes and usually end up thawing a couple MORE. It has been NUTS!!!!

wow, that's like a dream!! My snakes are pretty much all eating machines right now, but September is always the biggest month.. they were not that great the rest of the year with the exception of one monster female I have that eats anything anytime...

The time of year could also be playing a factor too. So many changes all in a short period of time makes it tough to see exactly WHAT made the difference. Whatever t was, it was worth it!

well, everything goes haywire this time of year.. all my animals freaked out as soon as the calendar flipped over to September.. it's like a panic attack to get ready for winter... "oh no, winter's almost here and I didn't eat all summer long!" heh

Thanks for sharing and any other input you may have!
Bristen.

[Vengeance]

I'm not expert, but to me it seems like your daytime ambiant air temps might be a little high. 86 - 88 oF seems a little warm, there is no place for them to really cool off if they want to. I just started with this method myself, but I'm trying to keep the daytime ambiant air temps in the lower 80's. 80 - 85, and I prefer it not go over 85 during the day. At night I want it to drop to 75 - 77 for the summer months, when the winter months come I hope to get the ambiant air to drop to 72 - 75 during the night. But I don't have as great a mesure of controll as you do, no space heater in the room yet. Now those are ambiant temps only, Hot spot temps are going to be 93 - 94 during the day and 84 - 85 during the night. This way it should give them exactly what they need, if they want to warm up, they can, if they want to cool down, they can. But haveing a good thermostat is really the big diffrence maker.

As for where the probes go, I don't have a rack system, and I got a 4 probe thermostat, so I've only got a trio right now so each cage gets a probe. Once they start breeding, I'll have to create a rack setup and figure out where the probes are best utilized. Not sure of that yet.

[Tim_Cranwill]

I agree about the high ambient temps. They sound pretty high to me. Try to get them to about 80-85 during the day and 75-80 at night.

The bins and rack you are using are fine. I just didn't have much luck with them. That's all.

I use just one thermostat to control my whole rack (30 bins). The probe is in the top corner bin and there is no snake in that bin.

But it doesn't sound like you are having much trouble over there anyway! I would just try to get control over those ambient temps, if I were you.

[Kevin McRae]

I had a problem feeding my adult ball awhile back(when I just had one snake)and the problem was the rat needed to be warmer then room temperature...so I heated it under a heat lamp, and it did the trick

[Bristen]

Originally posted by Tim_Cranwill
I agree about the high ambient temps. They sound pretty high to me. Try to get them to about 80-85 during the day and 75-80 at night.

[...] But it doesn't sound like you are having much trouble over there anyway! I would just try to get control over those ambient temps, if I were you.

I think I did not really explain clearly.. with regards to ambient temperatures during the day, what I meant was that it CAN reach UP TO 85F or 88F... on a regular day, the daytime ambient high is something like 83F.. so according what you guys are saying, it's pretty close to what others are doing..

About feeding, you said that you were feeding 1.5x of girth and that was big.. now you feed smaller meals.. how do you gage what is an appropriately sized meal (in your opinion)? I weight everything I feed.. so have a weight of snake & weight of meal would be nice, that we way we could do a ratio...?

Thanks!
Bristen.

[Ron]

Bristen,

I also use smaller meals now; I try to stay within 7 - 10% of body weight. I don't weigh every single rat but I can guess approximately what they weigh.