Mud Snake, Albino Bull Snake; New snakes pics...

CamHanna · 09-13-04, 06:20 PM

The Sept. 12th show was great and I picked up four new snakes... 0.1 Albino Bull snake, 1.0 Mud Snake (Eastern?) and 1.1 Macklot's Python.

I got the '04 albino bull from Jonathan Crowe and it's huge; I haven't seen many you pits but at nearly two feet it's much bigger that I would expect at only a few months old. I'm not normally a fan of things with red eyes but the yellowish-orange colouration is simply irresistible... and it looks much better in person. At the show it looked great but I didn't truly appreciate its colour until I got it out of its container. This girl's (my guess, not properly sexed) great to handle and I can't wait for my bank account to recover from the show so I can find her a mate.

I got my new mud snake (I think it's an Eastern?) from PCPC. These guys have a reputation for being very difficult captive, partly because of their exclusive diet of Amphiuma and Sirens (at the show I thought they ate eels but that's the closely related Rainbow Snake), and partially because of their tendency to blister from soaking too long.

PCPC kept him on moist sphagnum for a month or two but after reading a bit and talking to another fellow who's kept them healthy for a good length of time (I've looked everywhere and only found one person!!), I've decided to house him differently. He is in an aquarium with about 8" of water and a large floating platform. On the platform is a bowl of peat moss and a dry hide. The pH of the water has been lowered to 6.5 using peat moss; muds tend to blister if the pH goes to high.

Right now I am heating the water with an aquarium heater but I am planning to switch to an overhead lamp. The reason for this is that in the wild muds spend a great deal of time in clogs of pond weed and likely thermoregulate by sitting closer to the surface or bottom as the case may be.

PCPC said they had him eat mice, which is very rare. Some larger specimens have been known to eat mice scented with amphiuma. I tried a frog and some minnows (all unscented) last night but he showed no interest. I'm looking around right now for a siren or amphiuma but with no luck so far, hopefully I'll find some one to import one for me.

These guys have a strong, sharp tail which they press up against their handler, this is sometimes said to be fatally toxic (enough so to kill a tree!), but is of course completely harmless; though you can feel it more than I'd expected. They are also known (falsely) to roll into a hoop, their tail in their mouth, and roll after folks, chasing and envenomating them with their tail. They are slightly venomous (like most xenodontinae) but are not biters, in fact I haven't even found any info on symptoms, no doubt they are negligible.

As far as I no they have only been hatched once in captivity (though I believe it was a WC female who was gravid when captured). This is quite possibly the only mud in Canada. If all goes well and he stays healthy (and I can have him eat something other than amphiuma) I'll likely be trying to find him a girl next year.

This has got to be my favourite snake ever, even if he doesn't take good pictures.

I have some pics of my new Macklott’s in the General Pythons Forum.

Thanks
Cam

nburgmei · 09-13-04, 06:32 PM

What are the numbers before the snakes in your list?

Ex: 1.0 mud snake, 1.2 ???snake, etc etc...

I've seen a lot of people with these and can't figure out what they mean.

CamHanna · 09-13-04, 06:57 PM

1.0 means one male, no females.
0.1 means no males, one female.
0.0.1 means no males, no females, one unknown / juvenile

the format is --- males.females.unknown

ChokeOnSmoke · 09-13-04, 06:58 PM

Nice new addition
Never seen a mud snake before. They are beatiful.
nburgmei the numbers represent the sex of the animals, males.females.unsexed, for example if I had 1 male and 3 females it would be 1.3 or if I had a female and 9 unsexed hatchlings it would be 0.1.9.. get it?

ZMonte85 · 09-13-04, 09:39 PM

Awesome new addition. That bullsnake is beautiful.

snakehunter · 09-13-04, 10:04 PM

Check reptibid.com sometimes they get amphiumas and sirens

Vanan · 09-14-04, 09:34 AM

I would be highly skeptical about someone saying that their Farancia eats mice. Good luck getting it eating.

Nice bull btw. Albino bulls rock!

BWSmith · 09-14-04, 09:57 AM

That makes me angry that people even sell mudsnakes. There are certain species that just do not do well in captivity and 99% will die. Mudsnakes, Rainbow Snakes, and Queen Snakes immediately come to mind. Don't get too attached to it.

CamHanna · 09-14-04, 03:13 PM

I know that Farancia have attained notoriety as a trouble species but I'm hopeful.

There were both Amphiuma and sirens on reptibid, but the prices are a little much and I don't know that I want to trust someone I don't know anything about to Import/Export properly. I've also found amphiuma at lab/school supply stores. My plan is to try scenting frogs, fish or mice; if that fails I'll kill and skin the amphiuma, feed the carcass to the snake and stick great big chunks of skin on other prey.

Right now I'm optimistic about blisters as he's spent a great deal of time out of water, probably about 5% on the floating platform, 20% in the water and 75% burrowed in the peat moss. I think I'm going to switch to a less acidic medium.

I'd really love to see these guys 'figured out' and thrive in captivity.

Cam Hanna

Edit: Symantics were bothering me, had to change 'em but content's the same.

BWSmith · 09-15-04, 10:22 AM

A mud snake is designed for a specifc prey item. Fish and rodents just are not the same. Think about the difference in fat content in rodents compared to amphibians. Early death is common when substituting such prey items. It happens in Corals quite often on long term captives.

I wish you the best of luck and keep us updated. I wish i could guide you to someone who has experience in captive muds, but i have not met anyone yet who could keep them alive. Trust me, I feel your pain. I had an injured Rainbow Snake come in from a job site.

nburgmei · 09-15-04, 10:37 PM

That really is a beautiful snake. I've been meaning to take a special trip to try and find some for photos. Never seen one before and would love to see my first one in its natural habitat.

Good luck with it. I don't know much about captive snake care yet, but it seems that everyone else believes this one to be a bit on the tough side.

Vanan · 09-15-04, 11:50 PM

Quote:

I think I'm going to switch to a less acidic medium.

Why would you do that? I have found (along with others) that more acidic substrate (i.e. peat moss) reduces the levels of bacteria and results in a lower chance of a bacterial infection. I have had wc garters on paper towels, newspaper, sphagnum moss and peat moss. Never had a garter get blister disease using peat moss.

Anyways, good luck, and not to burst your bubble but (as Brian mentioned) don't get your hopes up.

P.S. Look up fatty liver disease in snakes.

BWSmith · 09-16-04, 08:44 AM

Mud snakes are often found in swampy area here in Georgia. most of these areas are highly acidic.

Again, best of luck with him. He probably has a better chance with you than with the dealer. It just angers me that a dealer would even sell them. It always makes me mad when dealers take a $5 snake with poor survival probability just to make a couple dollars profit.

oscar · 09-16-04, 11:02 AM

that mudsnake is really nice looking. i hadnt heard of them before. not to sound too ignorant, but what are the items that you need to feed him? the sirens and Amphiuma?

and after all that was said here... good luck!

LdyDrgn · 09-16-04, 12:51 PM

Mudsnakes are very neat. They have a great, smooth texture. We volunteered for a herp appreciation exhibit at the Solato Wildlife Center in Frankfort, KY. Among many other local herps there was a Mudsnake there. Beautiful creature. Good luck with it!