Help!

TryToForget · 08-14-04, 11:41 AM

I just went out and bought 5 frozen rats. I tired feeding them to my female BP and she would barely even look at them. I don't know what to do. She has been eating live mice since I've got her (I've had her for 2 years) and she's about 4 feet and I figured she needs to go on bigger rodents. I tired dropping it right infront of her face (which is what I do with mice and she gets them right when they hit the tank floor), I tried moving it around, and everything. I don't know what to do. I would rather feed her frozen rats then live ones so that I don't have to risk her getting hurt. Can someone please help me because I'd rather her eat them then me having to bring them back.

Thank you.

-Jamie

Tim_Cranwill · 08-14-04, 11:51 AM

You'll probably need to get them pretty warm. Thaw them (one) at room temp and then just before you feed it to the snake, dip it's head or whole body on hot tap water.

That would give you your best shot.

BoidKeeper · 08-14-04, 12:05 PM

I would start with a live fuzzy rat or something close to the size that she is eating now and then try to convert her to F/T rats. Going straight from live mice to the right size F/R rats is quite a jump for a snake that has been eating live mice. She's been on them for two years and might stay that way. You may also want to try and sent the rat pups with a live mouse. Get her on live rats first then try to switch to frozen thawed.
Also make sure you are feeding after dark. You can also try living the snake inside a small dark rubbermaid over night with a warm F/T rat. That might also work. If you don't already have it the Ball Python Manual has a lot of good tips on feeding.
Cheers,
Trevor

TryToForget · 08-14-04, 01:03 PM

The rat that I tried feeding her was only about an inch or a little more bigger then an adult mouse. Do you think that I should try getting the same size live rat and try that? She is eating 2 adult mice every week. Should I maybe just keep her on mice but try feeding her 3 mice instead?

Both of my snakes for some reason don't care when they eat. I've fed both of them in the morning before. I'm not forcing them to eat then either because they normally tell me when they want to eat by going right up to the top of the tank trying to get out. So I don't think that matters too much.

-Jamie

BoidKeeper · 08-14-04, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Do you think that I should try getting the same size live rat and try that?

Maybe even a bit smaller because a rat bit would be worse than a mouse bit.

Quote:

Should I maybe just keep her on mice but try feeding her 3 mice instead?

Switching to rats is always better because they are a better food source, It will take more than 3 mice to constitute a complete meal for an adult ball. Rats will get the snake up to size sooner. It is cheaper to feed one rat instead of multiple mice. Feeding mice is like under feeding you snake unless you feed a lot of them. An adult mouse is 30 ish grams. My adult balls eat 150-170g rats that would mean I would need to feed 5 to 6 mice at a time to constitute an appropriate meal.
If you snake is stuck on mice you will still want to convert to F/T.

Quote:

Both of my snakes for some reason don't care when they eat. I've fed both of them in the morning before.

Count yourself luck then. They are nocturnal animals and in the wild would not normally eat during the day. Most captive balls I've encountered almost always turn their nose up at food. Generally their feeding responce is stronger at night so when trying a switch you might find it easier at night.
Cheers,
Trevor

TryToForget · 08-14-04, 02:32 PM

Okay thank you for your replies. I think I'm just going to stay with mice at the moment because my other BP isn't big enough to eat rats yet and I don't have enough cages to house both mice and rats. So it's either one or the other. That's another reason why I wanted to try frozen. When he gets bigger I'm going to try them both on small live rats and then maybe pre-killed and then frozen. Do you think it is fine right now for me to feed her 3 mice since she was only getting 2 at the moment?

My male BP is about 2 feet and I've tried to feed him two mice but he only takes one at a time. When do you think would be the right time to try and move him up to a small rat also?

-Jamie

BoidKeeper · 08-14-04, 05:26 PM

I feed my snakes a food item that is equal to or 1.5 times larger then their largest girth. If the mice aren't equal to you snakes girth then yes I would move up to 2 or 3 depending on the snakes size.
If staying with mice is better for you it will still be better for the snakes if you can convert them to F/T.
Cheers,
Trevor

Jayson · 08-14-04, 08:36 PM

Its also easier to switch a bp if you let it get hungry for a while. Keep trying the f/t rats over the course of a 4-6 weeks period and dont offer it anything else. Sometimes scenting the rat with a mouse will work as well.
When you thaw out the mouse for the smaller one use it to scent the rat. Also dipping the rats head in chicken broth works well.

TryToForget · 08-15-04, 12:35 PM

Yeah the mice that I feed her are only about half the size of her largest girth. So yeah I think I'll move it up to 3.

I know this might sound weird. But if I was my snake I wouldn't have wanted to eat that f/t rat either. It had the most horrific smell. So I'm not really sure if that might have had anything to do with her not eating it.

I just went to Petco yesterday and they had the same size rats that I had gotten frozen but they were alive. I wanted to try feeding her a live one then moving to pre-killed and then f/t. I was like "oh great, I can get this one." but then I realized that the price on them was $8.99. I had paid $2.49 for a frozen one. I definitely don't have that kind of money so I'm stuck on what I can do. The only other store around me that sells rodents besides Petco is a local one and they haven't got any mice in for almost 3 weeks. The only rats that they have are large. So I'm definitely stuck on what I can do. Since my choices are pretty limited.

-Jamie

hhw · 08-15-04, 02:41 PM

At 2 feet or more, a ball python should be about big enough to take weaned rats. If the mice are only 1/3rd of her girth, it's definitely time to switch. However, you should make the switch as gradual as possible. Even we as humans have difficulty dealing with change. For primitive snakes like ball pythons, it is even more difficult. I would try a step by step method. For instance:

1. Switch to pre-killed or frozen/thawed mice
2. Scent a frozen/thawed rat the size of a mouse with a live mouse. I don't know why your rat before smelled awful, but I generally find rats to not have much of a smell compared to mice.
3. If step 2. is unsuccessful, feed that live mouse, and then, just as your ball python is almost done swallowing with its mouth open and the mouse's tail hanging out of the mouth, put the head of the frozen/thawed rat in its mouse. Do not force it down in any way, just hold it firmly inside its mouth, and hopefully it will grab it and start swallowing.
4. Repeat steps 2. and 3. After a while, your ball python should get accustomed to the smell and taste of rats and recognize it as food.

I would also space out feedings a bit more than usual. Also, make sure the frozen/thawed rat is warmer than room temperature. As long as you don't end up cooking them, it's pretty safe to have them pretty warm, much warmer than a live prey item per say. Although matching a live prey's temperature would be best, if you can't be accurate, I'd aim for higher rather than lower. Ball pythons depend a lot on their heat pits to sense prey, so it's important to that they detect something warm to help elicit a feeding response.

I personally would not bother buying any of the live rats from Petco as feeders. Chances are there won't be much selection in sizes, and $8.99USD is a ridiculous amount to pay. However, if you do plan to breed your rats, which sounds like your plan, you can definitely try feeding live as well. I just find the best time to get a ball python to eat whatever you want is to put something in its mouth as it's swallowing something else, in which case, you don't want something live.

TryToForget · 08-15-04, 08:14 PM

Thank you hhw. That is a really good idea. It never even crossed my mind. I think I might try that if she doesn't take a live rat. You are right also because I have been thinking about just breeding rats if she does take a live one. I figured that if I do that I can also start my male BP on rat pups. Which would be hard to do if I wasn't breeding them since like you said, there isn't a great selection of sizes (when I went they only had small and large). Does anyone else think that that might be a good idea?

-Jamie