Opening A Can O Worms

Optimus Prime · 07-19-04, 09:27 AM

Now I know this is gonna stir up some uh you know what but I needed to vent. Ok here it is where do people get off telling me how much to chage for my own animals? I am not going to name names but I have seen it happen to friends and now myself. We live in a free society for the most part and our economic system is based on free enterprise where market price is determined by supply and demand. So if I feel like selling my animals at less then market vaule I am free to do so, especially since I am not selling 50 or 60 animals but only 1. Where I am I can not sell my animal at mraket price so unless YOU want to buy it from me at market value don't tell me what to charge.

Also at shows it has happened to a frend of mine who was seeling corns less than everyone else and he got threats thats just bull$hit it's called competative edge and if you can't compete then go home. Thats how are economic systems works everyone competes and who ever has the best product for the least price wins. And as everyone knows the higher the supply the lower the demand and thus price drops!

I know the arguments some of the bigger breeders will throw at me but thier arguments are not valid because it seems like this is the only industry where it happens I mean if I were to sell my 2004 buck for less then market vaule would I get a call from my local GM dealer telling me to raise my price because I'm gonna undercut them I think not. Same with my other job I work for a camera store and we have recently had to drop prices on digital prints to keep up with larger chain like wal-mart but I don't think my company called up wal-mart and said you can't charge that it's not fair!

In my experiance business is never fair and it's eat or be eaten!

I also fully expect to be bashed quite thoroughly but it's all good I mean like I said before free speach and free enterpirse! So lets have at it lemme hear your thoughts?

leoncurrie · 07-19-04, 09:35 AM

I said it before and I'll say it again. Keeping and breeding reptiles is no longer about the care and facination of them but rather, "what can I breed and how many babies can I stuff in a container. The more Babies I have.... the more money I can make"! Welcome to the so called "hobbie" of herpetology.

Optimus Prime · 07-19-04, 09:37 AM

Exactly, I am selling this animal for personal reason and she just brings back to many memories I'd rather not have so I am willing to let her go cheap.

leoncurrie · 07-19-04, 10:43 AM

what is it and how much are you asking?

Tim_Cranwill · 07-19-04, 10:53 AM

You're right. You can sell your animals for any price you want. But just as YOU are entitled to do that, people are entitled to not like it... just as you are entitled to post about how you don't like them not liking it...

Scales Zoo · 07-19-04, 10:56 AM

I've always thought the price of an animal was completely the sellers decision, and don't beleive or understand many of the arguments I have heard against that train of thought.

Ryan

Optimus Prime · 07-19-04, 11:32 AM

Tim I understand people not likeing it but what pisses me off is people sending me personal mails telling me to change the price because they won't like it. I would never have the gall to tell you or anyone else what to charge for your animals and woud expect the same respect from others and if I didn't like your business practices or prices I would just not do business with you not send you imature mails telling you what to do. For me the price is a personal matter and I base it on what the animal is worth to me.

I am in genreal anti-athourity and don't like to be told what to do bye anyone. I was tempeted to lower the price just to spite the person.

leoncurrie - It is a female het for albino boa I am asking $300 for her so yes it is below market but I don't care the reason I am selling her is a very personal matter and not about the money thats why I don't care about price.

Linds · 07-19-04, 12:41 PM

The problem also that airses with the price being dropped considerably, especially with larger reptiles, is that it increases the likelyhood of the animal becoming more... for lack of a better word... "disposable" in the eyes of the new keeper. Higher prices help weed out these types of buyers and, sadly enough, help increase the chances of the animal going to a good home where it will be properly taken care of, regardless of what future costs may occur.

gonesnakee · 07-19-04, 01:45 PM

IMHO $300 for a het boa is market value, maybe even above. Hets are quickly becoming a dime a dozen. So much so that I personally consider all pos hets & het males to only be worth as much as commons. Folks have to realize that the market on these things has done nothing but drop for years now. I remember the first Albino Boa my buddy bought for $2,500 a few years back. Heck I was buying them at $1,000 each last year, even though SOME PEOPLE seemed to think that $1,500-$2,000 was market value. All depends on who ya know I guess LOL. People have issues with some of my prices too sometimes (never the customers though LOL) but like I really give a Rats @ss. To each their own & if they don't like it too bad, such is life. A lot of people seem to think that even common boas should never go for less than $100 or even $90 at the lowest WHOLESALE ya right, tell that to the guy sitting on 100 of them. I myself just flipped a bunch for buddy at $75 each & know of wholesale deals of $50 each etc. Breeding Herps is by no means a steady income & the market can change quite a bit in a few years. Another example is say Vietnamese Blue Beauties. 2 years ago $200-$250 each, now $100-$125 each (even last year). look at the whole Albino BP thing & the prices there, big difference in the last 2 years. Big enough to me to sell off all mine at loss/break even prices. I won't even get into what it has done to the price of commons. I took care of them for a couple years for nothing, that is if you consider things only in monetary values. When I got them less than 2 years ago 100% het pairs were like $2,000, now they are like $1,000 - $1,200 & soon to be much less just like the albino boa market. Irreguardless of the market, screw everyone & do what ya want as the choice is yours to do so. If I wanted to be told what to do & how to do it, I'd go back to working for "the man", not if I can help it LOL Do as ya please, but remember ya have to live with your choices & their results. I personally don't think 1 persons lower prices on an animal or 2 will affect anything market wise, but what do I know Heh Heh Mark

Katt · 07-19-04, 03:11 PM

Good job guys for telling it like it is!

mykee · 07-19-04, 04:14 PM

I agree that you selling one or two animals for lower than market price isn't going to collapse the market. However, Mark, if you're going to sell many animals, you have to take into consideration your reputation. Hypothetically, I have 20.20 het albino balls, am relatively new and hoping to 'break' into the snake business here in Canada. I know that 'market value' this year has been set at $900-$1100/pair. If I sell these 20.20 for $700/pair, not only am a potentially 'losing' $200-$400/pair, but I'm also not making any friends or gaining the respect from my 'associates' in the business, and your reputation is everything.

Derrick · 07-19-04, 04:35 PM

your rep would be pretty good with the customers mykee

.

leoncurrie · 07-19-04, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mykee
Hypothetically, I have 20.20 het albino balls, am relatively new and hoping to 'break' into the snake business here in Canada. I know that 'market value' this year has been set at $900-$1100/pair. If I sell these 20.20 for $700/pair, not only am a potentially 'losing' $200-$400/pair, but I'm also not making any friends or gaining the respect from my 'associates' in the business, and your reputation is everything.

Thanks for pointing that a dollar value is more important to you then the actual animal.

Hey O.P.,
You say that you have been receiving personal mails about your price? You should post these so everyone can have an idea of who is in this hobby, just looking to make as much money as they can and couldn't care less about the reptiles.

gonesnakee · 07-19-04, 04:56 PM

Exactly mykee, but are you willing to sit on them for months & months to try & get those higher prices, only to have to reduce them later at the cheaper price anyway? In reguards to the whole hets thing if you aren't in at the "ground level" you have already missed the boat. Sometimes to succeed you have to be willing to "rock the boat" some IMHO. Also you must realize that with the exchange rate & all the people working with hets, the market is flooded right now. Most herpers have bills to pay & would rather have cash in hand then 40 snakes to take care of for a few extra months to try & milk them for all they are worth. Most peoples prices drop dramatically when they have bills to pay & you have cash in hand. Fact of life. Heck I know of a breeder that GIVES het males for FREE. Same price on a lone female as a pair & singles males for like $100. If my reputation is based on others greed? &/or unwillingness to accept the market for what it is, instead of providing the best quality animals at the lowest prices possible, as stated like I give a Rats @ss as the quality of my animals speaks for themself & I charge what I consider to be reasonable. I would much rather be known as the guy that has quality specimens at good prices then the guy sitting on them for months & months because he refuses to accept things for what they are. I don't go out of my way to undercut people, but one must review the market & remain competitive if you want to survive as a herp person in the Canadian Market just my opinion though. Mark
P.S. some US breeders can provide albinos now for like $2,000 CDN I betcha the people that bought ones for $5,000 CDN less than 2 years ago really like that alot eh! Remember this is not going to change other than to go lower & lower.
P.P.S. pricelists change dramatically when breeders need money & you have cash in hand, like the song says "Money Talks!"

Optimus Prime · 07-19-04, 05:06 PM

I agree with gonesnakee I have gotten great deals cuz the seller was motivated. My motivation here has nothing to do with money or the need for it, my decisions to sell this snake are more emotional yes yes I have them :P just hide them well.

On a side note base my decisions on quality and price not what the competetion says about some one I preffer to make up my own mind.

Leon I am most deffinatly not going to name names that is not right!