Shoulda been easy

jjnnbns · 06-21-04, 10:28 AM

Well, before easter we set up a breeding colony of 1.2 rats in order to start to supply our own feeders. Unfortunately, nothing has come of it yet. We brought the male back to the shop where we got him and they traded him for a proven breeder male rat of theirs.

He has tried to "approach" our females but they flip to their backs and fight him off with thier feet. Is this normal? Should I whack the females and pick up a couple of new ones or let it go a couple more weeks. (hes only been with them for a little over a week)

Finally, I heard wierd wheezing/moaning noises from the rats, strange noise, does that sound normal? I am afraid that they are sick, but perhaps a prego female makes such noise? (I can only hope!)

Thanks
Brent Strande

PS I was told that breeding rats is EASY, whats my problem??? lol

sapphire_moon · 06-21-04, 10:35 AM

they are probably fighting for dominance (which WILL be the females when they are pregnant). Female rats usually come into heat about once every 5 days. She could be getting tired of the male "pestering" her and is trying to fight him off.

As for the wheezing, that doesn't sound like a normal rat to me.
If you honestly think they are sick, whack them ,freeze them (For atleast a month to get rid of anything) throughly clean the cage and start new.

ChristinaM · 06-21-04, 11:18 AM

- they will usually come into heat once a wk, but, it's only for about 5hrs I read.....after that, no preggo.

- females won't let a male mate with them if they are already pregnant.

- are you females breeding age/size?

- the only rat noises i've heard are clicks, slight hisses ( the one momma does NOT like me ) and squeaks. I do not think wheezing is normal....

if you think they are sick, PERSONALLY I would not feed them even if they've been froze 6months....that's me tho.

- are you sure the females are indeed females?

- I'd give it another week or two myself( unless you think they are ill), because they do need time to settle in, like any animal.....

- I noticed, buying "live feeder rats" saves me a few bucks compared to buying the "pet rats". ( both the same, but pet rats are labelled "fancy rats") dunno if that's the case where you are or not tho....just thought I'd throw it out.

Good luck.

marisa · 06-21-04, 11:31 AM

Snakes cannot catch rodent disease. In the wild snakes and other predators catch what most easily? Injured or sick animals.

There is no way a snake will catch a respitory disease from any rodent that's been frozen, or even live. Period. Although obviously do what you feel comfortable with.

I agree the wheezing is not normal. I would think your rats are pregnant already and refuses to breed with the new male. Give them a few more weeks. I am not expert on rats but with mice sometimes a new colony can take time to establish themselves.

Marisa

latazyo · 06-21-04, 11:34 AM

the rats are quite large, DEFINITELY old enough we even feared that they may be too large

but since this is our first attempt at breeding, we are just thinking that pregnant rats would be quite plump, which ours are not

mykee · 06-21-04, 11:47 AM

Sometimes it just doesn't happen as soon as you would like. One scenario that has not been mentioned are the temps in the room. From experience, rats WILL NOT breed if the temps in the room are up near 80 degrees. If the temps are in the low 70's, and NO females are pregnant, than I would suspect your male is defective. I would get a male who is still too small to breed, and raise him with the females. Like humans at least, juvenile rats are more than ready to mate. They'll try and try and try, and when they do reach sexual maturity, Wham!
What are the weights of your rats? I like to wait for females to be at least 250g and males to be 200g before I even consider putting them into a breeding program.

Pixie · 06-21-04, 11:51 AM

I've noticed that with my females, they only start "showing" in the end stages of their pregnancy. I don't notice anything in the first 2 weeks they've been knocked up, in my experiences, it starts showing in their third week of gestation.

As for the females on their backs fighting the males off: very normal. Aren't all females annoyed at persistent horny males?!! lol! Mine will make all types of squeaking noises when arguing (I call it that as there are never any wounds from their fights), listen in to see if it's just wierd squeaking that you're hearing or something else.

If they are weezing, it would be best to change your breeder rats. Not because they aren't good for food, but because if they are sick, they will most likely not produce young very well.

Good luck,
Pixie

annieb_mice · 06-21-04, 12:23 PM

The wheezing sound is generally a sign of Myco. Almost ALL domestic rats, whether pet, show, or feeder, have this disease and there is no "cure" for it.
This can be caused by a variety of things, including the type of bedding. Cedar and pine shavings, as well as other softwood shavings, contain phenols which are harmful. Cedar is the worst though, and many breeders have used pine with little to no problems. It can also be triggered by a dirty cage. Make sure to clean their cage often to keep the ammonia smell from their urine down. Food to a small degree can also play a factor.
The females flipping onto their backs to fight the male off is common, and as was mentioned before, usually happens when they are pregnant already. I would suggest taking the male out though, as he may decide to destroy the babies if he thinks they aren't his.
You probably won't notice anything different with the females until about two weeks, or even longer if this is their first litter, of their gestation. I have found that holding the females up by their tails (make sure to hold them by the BASE of the tail and don't hold them up too long) you'll notice a slight roundness to their tummies if they are pregnant. You will probably want to suppliment the female's diet with additional protein. Peanut butter, boiled eggs, cooked chicken meat and bones are all great treats and give them the needed protein. The bones also help supply them with additional calcium.
Don't worry about getting started immediately. Sometimes it takes a bit of time for things to get going.

Good luck!!

Take care
Annie B. <:3 )~~

ChristinaM · 06-21-04, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by marisa
Snakes cannot catch rodent disease. In the wild snakes and other predators catch what most easily? Injured or sick animals.

There is no way a snake will catch a respitory disease from any rodent that's been frozen, or even live. Period. Although obviously do what you feel comfortable with.

Marisa

To each their own

I stated what "I" would do. Not what should be done, or whatever, just my personal preference.

Heck, I could catch a sick cow quite easily, but would I eat it? Ummmm, nope.

ChristinaM · 06-21-04, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by latazyo
the rats are quite large, DEFINITELY old enough we even feared that they may be too large

but since this is our first attempt at breeding, we are just thinking that pregnant rats would be quite plump, which ours are not

wonder if by chance they are older females? Maybe past breeding age? I think it was around 18months old that they become less fertile......the book is upstairs so I can't swear on it. But this link says the same.

marisa · 06-21-04, 12:57 PM

I'd hope not seeing as cows CAN pass disease to humans. When on the other hand, rodents can not pass to reptiles. But again like I said in my post, whatever.

Marisa

sapphire_moon · 06-21-04, 01:23 PM

actually I thought females came into heat for 12 hours? Or is that 12hours after they give birth?

Rats generally don't show they are pregnant until the last week or so of their pregnancy, then they puff up like baseballs (some smaller some bigger), I had one rat (first litter) who was bigger than a baseball, only have 6 babies! And another she didn't even look pregnant (about 4th litter same rat) and she had 13 babies.

The best way to tell if they are pregnant is to weigh them when they aren't pregnant, then weigh them weekly. I've never done this, but it is supposed to work.

Oh I also read somewhere (not sure if it's true) if you are feeding something with anything citrusy (like oranges etc...) after a while it can make the males sterile???? Not to sure though

latazyo · 06-21-04, 04:57 PM

I can see a potential problem with the room being 80 degrees....so we want them to be cooler than 80?

I'll check the actual temp tonight and adjust accordingly

mykee · 06-21-04, 05:12 PM

I've had great success with the room being between 60-75, and then above that, less than optimal success.

jjnnbns · 06-21-04, 06:32 PM

Leighton, its cooler in there than my room and mine is at a nice 76F all the time now that the AC is going.

I think that they are definitely not too old, but I hope that they are already prego, although they were in with the other male for quite some time...

I'll look more into this after I get off work, better get finished up here!!!