Ball Python Feeding Troubles

[necoris]

Hey guys,

Just wanted to vent and think out loud to myself.

I have quite a few ball pythons (26 of 'em) and I have a few problem eaters; one I believe is an import (picked up from a friend locally; that's the last time I decide I'll take in a ball python for free). All of the others are either captive-hatched or captive-bred.

One of the things that is pissing me off is one of my largest females decided to go off feed. This may just be a mood swing, but I sure hope it's not because she wants to breed (I observed that behavior last year). She's only 1600 grams which isn't enough to breed (by my standards she'd have to be nearing 3000 grams to breed). I hope she starts eating again.

Another thing that is pissin' me off is that I have a male het that decided to stop eating. He has had the best feeding response I've ever seen until these past two weeks. He just hit 600 grams and I think he wants to breed. I put one of my other males in with him and he started shaking his tail violently and trying to get out of the cage as fast as he could. That was a stupid thing to do, and I knew better. I couldn't help myself...

Now, here's a question. I check all my enclosures twice a day for urates/feces. When I do this, I usually dig through the substrate so I know it's clean. I keep all of my animals in racks from Animal Plastics, Inc. using coconut bark as a substrate. Most of my enclosures also have hides in them for extra security. I was wondering what other experiences keepers have had with feeding and cleaning out the enclosure? I do clean it a lot, but I want to be one of the best known breeders eventually and I want my animals to keep their reputation. Plus I wouldn't want to live in my own feces. Well, anyone?

Hrmm, what else... Okay, how do you guys switch from mice to rats? And once you have, if the snake doesn't take rats do you go back to mice?

I have a few smaller females that switched over to rat pups. One of them decided she doesn't want to take rat pups anymore, but she already has. Anyone know what to do? Should I stay with the rats? Or should I go back to mice until she is larger? :/ Both have advantages...

Usually, I'll start hatchlings with live fuzzy mice. Usually these don't frighten the snakes and they are easy for me to get. There are little rat pups around me otherwise I would try rat pups first.

My mind likes to jump around, no?

At least I have a big female jungle carpet that takes all my left over rats (I have a blood that takes some too).

Ball pythons are really frustrating, aren't they? I wish I could prove out a "feeding response" line; god those would be worth a fortune, lol... A ball python that actually eats normally, Jesus Christ...

Here's another question, usually I will grab the frozen/thawed rodents behind their head above their neck and drag them along the ground slowly acting as if it was alive. This seems to work extremely well. However, when it doesn't, should I leave the rodent in the cage overnight? I hate wasting food. Usually the ball pythons never eat it anyway. I guess the best way is to leave it in, but I will waste a lot more money that way. Grr...

To get imports eating, I try to leave them alone (usually I don't buy imports or wild caught animals, only on circumstances; I prefer to have cb breeders instead of wild-caught; it will benefit me more in the long run) at first and then try different things. I try rats first, of course, frozen/thawed before live. I hate feeding anything larger than a rat pup alive. They could damage the snake sooo bad. I hate buying live...expensive but the snakes need it. I hope I don't sound cheap. I really try to take care of all my animals, that's why I'm posting this. Anyway...

Stupid imports...

I was thinking about trying a f/t mouse if the import decides not to touch rats. I'll try a live rat pup first though.

Yes! My male sidewinder rattlesnake (he is wanting to breed so I'm surprised that...) is eating right now! Woot! Finally. Stupid snake. He wouldn't even strike a live mouse. I had to kill it and leave it in there.

My tiger rattlesnake ate two frozen/thawed mice too, yay! He is a wild-caught individual from a specific locality I'm working with. I've had him for a year and a half now. He has only shed once. He ate frozen/thawed rats the first week I brought him home. I decided to feed him mice because small rats are a waste for him. He would get too fat. I want to find a locale specific female for him and try my luck at captive-bred tiger rattlesnakes. At the rate I'm going I should do it...I hope. We'll see.

Just fyi, tonight is feeding night. I just got done trying my luck.

Oh yea, I dislike it when people decide to import a lot of ball pythons, or other reptiles, and sell them without the intent on even trying to produce captive bred animals. I do agree with new morphs and such, but sometimes it's just sickening to see.

Okay rants done; wifey has to go to bed.

Later all,
Dustin
http://www.diapsid.com/

[sapphire_moon]

first of all, since you got so many snakes, I would suggest that you start breeding to cut down on costs! lol....
lets see what I remember.......

First of all, start them on rats in the first place and you won't have the problem of switching from mice to rats. It is so much more expensive to feed an adult the proper amount of mice than to feed one rat.

Just keep at the ones that have taken rats, You already said you tried live? (i think, lol) so try fresh killed, then f/t.

Unless they are drasticly loosing weight, don't worry about them not eating, and keep offering rats to them. Don't give in! (unless getting underweight).

Well that is all I can help you with, but I'm sure someone with more expierence and knowledge will come along. Goodluck!

[mykee]

Ball pythons do eat normally, at least normal for ball pythons. It's part of the joy of owning these little creatures. I'm with Sapphire, I just keep plugging along with the rat thing until those mouse-eating weenies cave. I've had a good success rats, but I also have quite a few balls, and I tend to sell off my mouse eaters if they won't trade over. I hate mice, and don't have the time nor the patience for an historically stubborn mouse eater. Also cheap or not, with that many balls you should definitely be breeding your own feeders. I can't even imagine the cost of your feeding bill.

[sapphire_moon]

I only have 5 snakes, and I breed my own. lol. It's better than paying 4-6 dollars a pop, a week, with the CHANCE that they won't eat. so if I have to throw something away, I know I didn't throw away like 6-8 dollars.

[necoris]

I would love to breed my own rodents, but I'm living with some people that do not allow me to do so. I was going to purchase 3 breeder racks from a local forum (it's a great deal) but I just don't have the room.

The only reason I do try mice first is the amount of hair on the rodents. It has been proven better for the snakes if they eat adult mice rather than rat pups. The fat content is way higher in baby rats. Despite that, I think I will just start my hatchlings on rat pups and keep them on rats. I hate mice too.

Yea, it's expensive. My fiance works at Arizona Reptile Center so she gets the rodents for a good price, still not as good as breeding them however.

Thanks for the input guys. I'll keep on tryin'.

[sapphire_moon]

But they let you keep 26 bp's?!

[necoris]

Don't forget about the two rattlesnakes and my other pythons...

Yea, it sounds wierd, but they are concerned about the smell; not the animals necessarily. Maybe I can work on 'em, but it's unlikely.

Dustin

[sapphire_moon]

so buy some as "pets" and oops! musta accidentaly gotten 1 male and 2 females.......once they see that they don't really stink (especially if you keep the cages clean) then they probably won't mind.


Oh. if they say that male rats can't live together.......

show them this site.......
www.fancy-rats.co.uk/home/

Just surf the site or go into the forums, everyone will say you can keep same sex groups together....lol

[marisa]

HAHAHA sorry but 1.2 rats is not enough to feed 30 snakes.

I most certaintly see why your roomates will not allow rodents. The are stinky, dirty and annoying. And when you get a HUGE number of snakes, it can be better to purchase frozen in bulk, cheaper especially if you count your time to care for rodents. Which in itself is HUGE if you have a substiantial colony.

Marisa

[necoris]

Heh. Yea, we buy bulk frozen food. I believe our last order ran almost $300.00. We are all outta medium rats now so again we must order... I would love to get 1.3. That would take care of the finiky eaters. I would have live rat pups and small rats. Good thing ball pythons take a while before taking large rats... One of the reasons I don't want to get into boas, yet...

Almost missed the "keeping same sex together part." Yes, I have had friends that have 1.4 in an enclosure and they keep the babies healthy. Sometimes I observed the father taking care of them too. If there is a male that decides to eat the babies, you know where he is going...

Well, another thing to keep in mind is that I can get 50lb bags of rodent blocks for $10.00 a bag; that's not a bad price. However, I'll need to keep the rodents on a bedding other than pine because pine reeks. At my wifeys work she had all the rodents on aspen and when they changed to pine because the aspen jumped in price it started to smell bad. If it was my house I wouldn't really care about the smell. Well, where can I get bulk bedding? Aspen is okay, but will need to be changed every other day if not every day. What about newspaper? I could to shredded newspaper... Anyone have experience with newspaper? Geez, I just said newspaper four times in four consecutive sentences... :?

Dustin

[sapphire_moon]

I meant as a starter, to show how nice they are, and to show that they don't really stink if you keep them clean. I know that 1.2 is NOT going to feed 30 snakes.

just a frickin idea to get a few colonies started.