Gas Chambers

Vengeance · 05-12-04, 11:20 AM

I was thinking about how to setup a gas chamber for when I start breeding my Feeder rats. I would much rather prefer to use co2 over whacking. But because I won't be having a huge production line of rats to euthanize, using co2 canisters could get expensive. So I was trying to brainstorm some other ideas on how to setup a gas chamber and was wondering what you guys would think of the following idea, would it be considered humane or not?

Basically my idea is to use a large air tight jar or container and instead of introducing co2 into the environment and pushing the o2 out. What about burning the o2 out of the air and replacing it with co2? Basically I'd want to secure an area that the mouse/rat would not be able to access by suspension or other means (I haven't figured this part out yet) and use a clean burning substance such as isopropyl alcohol and basically light the fuel, close the lid and allow the flame to burn off all the o2 in the container and replace it with co2. Now because I would use a clean burning fuel I wouldn't have to worry about smoke inhalation being the cause of death. But I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on if the o2 would be burned from the air too quickly thus causing the burning sensation on the eyes and lungs or would the heat produced by the flame heat up the air to a point that it would cause allot of discomfort to the mouse/rat?

Any opinions on this matter would be great, also keep in mind I'm currently not using this method, only brain storming ideas for cheap ways to euthanize mouse/rats using a co2 method.

sapphire_moon · 05-12-04, 02:32 PM

actually, if you dont plan on having alot of mice/rats to kill off, one can of c02 would last a long time. So in the long run I don't think it would be as expensive as your thinking.

Sounds more like suffocation than being put to sleep, you would basicly be burning the oxygen up, where co2 they inhale and it puts them to sleep.....jmo though

Vengeance · 05-12-04, 04:00 PM

See that's what I'm trying to figure out. When the o2 is burned out of the air, it has to be replaced with co2. So just as you are replaceing the o2 with co2 by forceing the o2 out of the container and replaceing it with co2 wouldn't buring the o2 there by produceing the byproduct, co2 produce the same effect?

sapphire_moon · 05-12-04, 04:53 PM

I think fire and co2 would be a bad combination. not sure though, lol. I'm probably wrong.

Vengeance · 05-12-04, 05:20 PM

Scientifically it seems sound, but humanly I have no idea.

Syco · 05-12-04, 07:49 PM

I don't think it sounds like a good idea, but fire and CO2 would not be a problem.
I use a CO2 fire extiguisher to introduce CO2 to my "Gas Chamber", if it puts fires out I'm sure it shouldn't cause an explosion or anything.

Batdad · 05-12-04, 08:22 PM

If you are looking for a cheap (inexpensive

) and effective source of CO2 you can mix baking soda and vinegar. If you are interested I can look for acopy of a web page I put together awhile ago showing how I do it. It's not on line anymore as I recently moved and changed servers. Think it cost me about $10 CDN to set it up.

Bruce

Vengeance · 05-12-04, 09:02 PM

I've seen this explination for how to setup a vinigar and baking soda chamber.

http://www.alysion.org/euthanasia/

I'd like to see your explination as well.

Like I said I have no idea if the idea is pratical or not, just brainstorming ideas is all. In the end I'm sure I'll either use a co2 canister or the baking soda method because I'm not sure of any other ways to go about it.

Cruciform · 05-13-04, 01:20 PM

I tried the baking soda and vinegar setup, increasing the amounts to match the size of my small rubbermaid.

I think the smaller the container, the better. After 20 minutes the mouse I was testing it with was altered and gasping, but not fatally injured. She was suffering so I resorted to whacking to end her suffering. It may be that she was just an extremely resilient little creature. She revived twice from two whacks that would have killed a small dog. All was not in vain though, as she was eaten by an obliging BP.

I modified the rubbermaid system I build to accomodate my CO2 tank. I'll post pictures when I get home. It looks pretty spiffy

Vengeance · 05-13-04, 09:30 PM

I'd like to see the pictures of other people gas chambers.

annieb_mice · 05-14-04, 10:48 PM

I use CO2 from a cannister usually, but out of curiousity more than anything else, I tried using the set-up that is described in the link that Vengeance supplied. I tried it in two difference situations.
With the first, I tried it on one large adult rat, approximately 180 grams, in a shoe-box sized Sterylite container with a hose in the lid. It took approximately 2 minutes for the rat to fall asleep, and within 10 minutes it was completely dead. I did not notice any of the convulsions that can happen when using compressed CO2 from a cannister. I used approximately 3 cups of vinegar mixed with 6 tablespoons of baking soda.
In the second trial, I used the same size sterylite container with three large adult rats, all about the same size as the first one. They were all unconcious in less than a minute and dead within 5 minutes. I used the same amount of vinegar and baking soda as for the first one.
If you are only wanting to kill one or two animals, this method will take a bit longer, but seems to be very effective and a pretty cheap alternative. Obviously, the more animals you are killing at one time greatly reduces the length of time for death.
Personally, I would recommend this method if you are looking for a cheap and effective alternative to "whacking." Both times I've used this method, I've found it to be very effective and humane and very easy for most people to set up and use.
Thanks to Vengeance for finding that site!
Take care
Annie B. <:3 )~~

jjnnbns · 05-15-04, 02:48 AM

Dry ice and water also works extremely well, and if you have any extra dry ice its pretty fun to toss it in a 20 oz bottle w/ water and let er rip! Just be careful...

Vengeance · 05-15-04, 07:35 AM

I can't take credit for finding that site, Daver676 found it in another thread, I just used his link.

annieb_mice · 05-15-04, 04:29 PM

LOL... well... I knew I saw the link here SOMEWHERE... and since you were the one to post it in this thread... I wasn't sure.

Good luck
Annie B. <:3 )~~

Lisa · 05-15-04, 07:17 PM

burning up the oxygen will give you more then co2. besides oxygen you will have other things in the mix, plus fuel. oxygen isn't a fuel, it's just what the fire needs to breath (basic grade school science). you will end up with hydrocarbons, amongst other things.

As a CO2 source i use dry ice... it's cheap. and it works well.

I take a sweater box crammed with rats and place a small container of hot water and dry ice in the sweater box.

15 minutes later they're done. and ready to freeze

because the rats are still pretty warm I put whats left (alot) of the dry ice in my freezer too so it doesn't have to work as hard (I just spread it).

Because of the way the dry ice fogs it increases the co2 in the chamber at a humane rate (with a tank you run the risk of increasing too fast). CO2 is also heavier then air so it pushes the rest of the air out of the top of your container.

When I pick up dry ice I get about a kilo or so... and if i put it in the freezer with in an hour i have some left over the next day