Back up power for incubators

Scales Zoo · 05-05-04, 08:12 PM

O.K, so my hot water bottle idea sucked.

The power went out last night for quite a while. I watched the incubator drop 2.5 F. Then I had second thoughts about opening the door to put warm water in - thinking it might be better to leave the door closed and well insulated.

Didn't matter. We didn't have any water pressure as the whole town was without water. My barbeque was without propane (1 minute into cooking supper no doubt!) and I thought I was screwed.

Today, my mom asked me if we used the "eliminator". You see, at Christmas mom bought me one of those little units that look like a ghetto blaster (but are like 30 lbs of batter) and can be used to boost vehicles (I've boosted 3 dead vehicles, and I am still on 90% power)

Anyways, these little units rock. They can also be used to run 120 V AC power appliances for short periods of time.

The incubator is not high wattage, and the thermostat only brings on the heat maybe 10% of the time. I'm going to hook up the "eliminator" to the incubator tommorrow and see how long I can keep it running.

Now my question to Roy or anyone who might know. Is there some kind of electrical relay I could find that would sense a loss of commercial power and turn on the auxillary power unit (eliminator). I know Hospitals and other places have large ones for their back up power units, but could I find something small and cheap, and if so where could I find such a thing?

Ryan

Icefire · 05-05-04, 08:57 PM

Very easy to do so
Take a 120V Relay that have both Normaly Close and Normaly Open contacts.
you plug the 120V coil directly on home electricity, that will detect
if there is or not current.

There should be 2 set of contacts like in the picture.
you plug BOTH wire from the Thermostat to the COMMON contact.
You plug BOTH wire from the Home Electricity on Normaly OPEN contacts.
You plug BOTH wire from the Backup electricity on Normaly CLOSE contact.
so if there is no electricity on the coil, the current flow thru Common and Normaly Close. (backup)

I'm not an electrician YET, but I can tell you I would do it. but it's
all YOUR responsability. you should ask an electricien to do so.
If you have a GROUND (3rd pin) on the thermostat, you should
hook it DIRECTLY to the house ground.

Jeff_Favelle · 05-05-04, 09:15 PM

Hey, cool diagram! Thanks for sharing!!!

Stockwell · 05-05-04, 10:02 PM

Yes, Icefire has the right idea. Ryan all you need is a relay with a 120volt coil , one pole, and two throws... the contacts must have a rating equal or higher to your load current.
abbreviated , they call the the contact confirguration SPDT.(Single pole, double throw.)The pole is the common, the throws are the contacts made on either side of the common.
In Icefires drawing, the output marked "thermostat" is actually your 120out to your load.. I'm sure you figured out that means "incubator power"
He has illustrated a double pole double throw relay(DPDT) switching both sides of line. This will work but is not necessary for 120volt applications, where you only need to switch one leg, the live side, and common up all the neutrals... It makes no sense to switch both neutral and live in 120volt systems. If it were 240, then by code, you should switch both sides, as both are live.

Stockwell · 05-05-04, 10:15 PM

Ryan, inverters are a good idea for incubator back ups. There are ones on the market that automatically charge the batteries, and do the "change over" when the power fails. It's done simply with a relay as discussed above.

Computer UPS systems accomplish the exact function you want, but they don't last long enough for you standard hour or more power outage,unless you have supplemental gel cells.
gel cells are the best "stand by" batteries, as they can last a long time and don't get damaged by lack of deep cycling.(discharging and recharging)
Car batteries and marine batteries are not really suitable for backups, as they become damaged if not charged and discharged regularily.
I have an inverter on my incubator stack, but its actually down right now, because I cheaped out and bought a 100 buck marine battery.. The plates got damaged by lack of deep cycling, so the battery is no good anymore... I should have bought a gel cell, but they cost more.

In a power failure, the best you can do without an inverter, is to pile a sleeping bag or sheets over the entire enclosure to slow down heat loss..
Never open the door!

Icefire · 05-05-04, 10:42 PM

Well I'm not sure it would be good to Supply a neutral to the
backup battery pack. a SPDT would means you connect both neutral (white lines) from both 120 home electricity and battery back to the Neutral (white) connector of the thermostat.
so if you have 120v from house, it will return to the house AND the battery pack

That's why I used DPDT, to bypass this problem.

Scales Zoo · 05-05-04, 11:37 PM

Wow Ice Fire, thank you very much for the info and especially the diagram. I'm sure I have access to those used relays, may even have one, just need a base. I used to work with relay logic, looks like I lost a lot of it - I should have known that.

Roy, those computer UPS things with the extra battery packs, could had some given to me a while ago, but did not think of a use for them. Doh!

This eliminator unit is great, I think everyone should get one.

Ryan

Stockwell · 05-05-04, 11:39 PM

.

morph · 05-06-04, 12:54 AM

Yeah what Roy said

JK

This is quite helpful

Scott

Stockwell · 05-06-04, 01:28 AM

oops , sorry Scott, sometimes I forget I'm not at work

morph · 05-06-04, 01:31 AM

Dammit Roy go to bed isn't like 3am there and you're still typin technical jargin what kind of freak of nature are you. It's 12am here and I can barely type this sentence

Scott

Reptile Kings · 05-06-04, 02:27 AM

I use the Eliminator as well in the event of a power failure. Lost power last week for more than three hours due to a near by accident that took down the hydro poll.
Hooked up the eliminator to my incubabors and it worked great!
Checked the battery status after power came back on (3 1/2hrs later), and it was still at 100%! I'm sure it'll last at least 5-6hrs before it's battery depletes. Great thing about it is that you can attach an external battery to it, for example a 60 Ah battery, which'll give approximately 4x the operating time of the Eliminators 20 Ah internal battery. I'd guess that that'd last about 10hrs+ depending on how many watts are being run on it.

Cost me around $170CND with taxes. Not bad.

Great product, I'd recommend anybody to get it.
Here's a pic:

The relay idea is a nice idea as well, we were thinking about how to make the unit turn over when the power fails. Thanks Icefire!

-Sam

Icefire · 05-06-04, 08:57 PM

welcome, I just finish a Diploma in electromecanic and I'm getting
an electicien license.
So I can help quite much

If you need Relay Logic Conctact (Ladder) just say it hehe

How many Watts were on the "eliminator" for 3.5hours?

Reptile Kings · 05-06-04, 09:09 PM

One big incubator at around 50 watts.
I may PM you sometime soon regarding the relay logic...lol.

-Sam

Scales Zoo · 05-06-04, 10:36 PM

I was good at relay logic many moons ago, but worked with PLC's so much that I lost what I had learned about ladder logic.

Might even wire a couple of relays up to AC outlets and put everything in a nice little junction box. In Saskatchewan I'm allowed to wire 120 volt circuits. No fires yet!

Ryan