American Toad

marisa · 03-08-04, 08:35 PM

My roomates gave the toad a better set up! She likes it.

the dry side will be higher because they are getting more stuff to build it up but she sticks close to the water most of the time it seems. I think they are gonna use moss. Not sure though.
<img src="http://8snakes.myftp.org/marisa/Reptiles/toad/toadtank2.jpg">
<img src="http://8snakes.myftp.org/marisa/Reptiles/toad/toadtank6.jpg">
<img src="http://8snakes.myftp.org/marisa/Reptiles/toad/toadtank5.jpg">

Marisa

BurmGuy87 · 03-08-04, 08:36 PM

not bad....gonna b a pain to clean the water tho...unless you can siphon it out

sketchy4 · 03-08-04, 08:37 PM

Nice set up and toad!

Dozer · 03-08-04, 09:10 PM

careful not to overfeed these little aggresive feeeders, mine used to eat everythin that would move, including my finger, when summer time comes along, a worm would be a delicacy for the guy, dont feed to often however, once a month with a worm as a treat would be nice

Jeff_Favelle · 03-08-04, 09:59 PM

Very cool! Naturalistic setups are totally awesome! I think its the reason we all got started in this crazy hobby in the first place, isn't it?!!

Bartman · 03-08-04, 10:14 PM

I agree jeff! Nice set up..get a filter in the water and you wont have to clean it or cyphan it....

Bighead · 03-08-04, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jeff_Favelle
Very cool! Naturalistic setups are totally awesome! I think its the reason we all got started in this crazy hobby in the first place, isn't it?!!

Yes indeed.

Double J · 03-09-04, 12:13 AM

I think the set-up looks good... but I have a few suggestions....
1) I would cover up that gravel. American toads are messy eaters... and there is a good chance they will swallow some gravel. The gravel in the water area is fine.... but the stuff on the terrestrial section needs to be covered.... but that leads me to my next suggestion.....
2) Cover up the gravel with some window screen or that plastic craft mesh. Window screen is cheap and can be purchased at home DEPOT (make sure it doens't smell "chemically"... that's why I avoid the brand sold at Home HARDWARE)Cut it to fit.... and then put a soil mixture over top of that. These toads need to burrow.... and they will need at least three inches of dirt to do so. Avoid potting soil altogether... it rots quickly, clumps up, and sometimes contains stuff like vermiculite or manure (which contains WAY too many nitrates) which is not always mentioned on the bag. Instead.... use Eco-earth, bedabeast, or forest bed. They are all coco-husk fiber and are sold in bricks at most pet shops. It works well as a soil substiute as it is more rot resistant, and plants do well in it. Plus, a messy eater like any North American bufonid will pass it through their system easily if they ingest it. If Horned frogs do well on it.. any amphibian will. I keep ALL of my amphibians (dart frogs, mantellas, various hylids, caudates, and others), and all of my geckos on eco-earth in one form or another. However... in my vivs... I take it a step further. I mix the eco-earth up with peat moss (but no peat is with my salamanders of course), sphagnum moss fiber, and crushed oak leaf litter. This makes for a medium that plants do extremely well in, and there will be plenty of great little food items like springtails and fungus gnats that smaller amphibs eat up. This is not necessary in your setup... eco earth wil do the job just fine. One thing... if you do use the above soil mixture (which is a variant of one posted on frognet), your water will get a reddish tinge to it. This is nothing to worry about, as these are merely tannins that come from the peat and the leaf litter. And yes.. the toads will get some in the water section.. but again.. if you are doing regular water changes, it will not become a problem.
Anyway.... when you cover the gravel up... your tank will be perfect. But make sure you get on top of that soil layer... it is important. Your tank will look even better, and your plants will thrive. Plus... it will be MUCH better for the toads.
Anyway.. good luck... and feeel free to ask any more questions.
Double J

Double J · 03-09-04, 12:56 AM

Bartman said :"get a filter in the water and you wont have to clean it or cyphan it..."

Bartman......
Mechanical filtration is no subsitute for water changes. Water needs to go in AND out of the system. A filter merely increases the time between water changes.
Double J

marisa · 03-09-04, 12:04 PM

Well I HATE eco earth. I refuse to use it as their are many alternatives available. I have found it gets mouldy, smelly, and gets everywhere! On the eyes, the body, all over every inch of cage, all around the cage, on and on and on.

In my first post I mentioned they will be using sphagnum moss as the top layer to cover the gravel. They will have to mix it with something and I am sure it will be somelike LIKE eco earth. Probably far more than three inches as well.

Marisa

CONCEPT03 · 03-09-04, 06:30 PM

nice setup, i olny have a couple pointers. go to your local auto glass shop, get a 2 dollar peice of glass go to your local hardware shop and get a vinegar based silicone and sepertae the water section, it will save u countless hours trust me. also eco earth is garbage if u decide to use soil go to your local greenhouse and get a certified organic sterilized top soil it costs about 4 bucks for a 40 pound bag and the frogs love it.

Double J · 03-10-04, 01:38 PM

WHAT?????????????????????????????????

Eco-earth Garbage????????????????????????????????

Am I in the bizarro world here?????????????????????????????

First... eco earth does not mold. I have used it for years never seen it mold in any of my amphibian tanks that it is used in. In my gecko tanks on the other hand.. I have seen mold... but the mold only ever grows on fecal matter.
And as for it getting smelly................... the moss will get smelly much faster if it is kept soggy. If kept properly drained... eco-earth should never get that sulphury odour. And... that gravel layer in the tank in question should keep it plenty drained anyway, so the problem is solved. The problem with the sphagnum moss is that it will be a great place for the crickets to hide in, and the moss is not as good for burrowing... but I suppose it can do the job.
As for Concept's comment...the slate that you have there is fine... it will prevent erosion jhust as well as a divider would. no need to tear down the tank and put in a divider. I have found them to be more trouble than they are worth. They always leak.. and they look shoddy even when done well. Plus... the gravel layer will allow water to percolate down through the gravel layer and it will keep the substrate well drained. But if a glass divider is put down... how will the water in gravel drainage layer actually be able to be drained out in the divided land section?
Trust me..... soil from the grenhouses is usually crap in an amphibian terrarium.. I have used many different commercial brands.... and have come to the conclusion that they are all terrible for use in frog tanks. A few reasons why I don't commercial soils......
1) they drain very poorly. The soil gets soggy even with a gravel layer underneath. This means that it gets that nasty sulphur smell. It also gets caked and mucky... not loose the way eco earth stays.
2) if they start to dry out a lttle bt... they get clumpy.. and the clumps ususally stay even when the soil is rehydrated.
3)even certified organic soils can still have animal manure in it. Manure=sick frogs because of the oodles of nitrates in it.
4) you never know what is really in these soil mixes anyway. There is always some surprise. I have even found vermiculite in bags labelled "plain black earth."
I still stand by eco-earth as THE best general substrate for amphibians. It is now in use in one form or another in 20 out of my 22 current amphibian tanks.. and in all of my gecko tanks.
Commercial soils have their uses..... and they are in peoples outdoor gardens, and in potted plants.
Myself, I MAKE my own soil mixes for my amphibian vivaria. I mix the eco-earth up with peat moss (but no peat is with my salamanders of course), crushed sphagnum moss fiber, and crushed oak leaf litter, I sometimes add some play sand as well, and sometimes coco chips to makes the medium more airy and better draining in tanks that will be wetter. This medium is ideal, and I swear by it. I know all of the ingredients in it.... and it works much better for me.. and trust me.... I have used a lot of different things. I have live plants (and no fake ones) in all of my enclosures (except quarantine rubbermaids, and my chameleon and snake tanks).. and they thrive in this mixture. But more importantly.. the amphibians like it even better.
Take it from me guys.
Double J

marisa · 03-10-04, 01:46 PM

"First... eco earth does not mold."

Actually yes it does for many people. I have used it once in three tanks. Two of the three tanks were covered in mold within two weeks. I have photos somewhere....I'll try and dig them up. It's just coconut fiber...anything like that can mold. I have heard plenty of other people complain about this same problem with Eco Earth. And here at my house, it did, big time. My other problem with it was with a snake, unrelated and irrelavent in this conversation though. Either way, I am sure it works great for you, but I have found it to be nothing but garbage for my tarantulas which is why I am hesistant to recommend it for my roomates frog tank. Although its a fair bit drier in there so maybe it would be just fine.

Marisa

C.m.pyrrhus · 03-10-04, 01:56 PM

Seems as though these Eco-earth folks are not cleaning tanks, or keeping thier tanks to wet. I have never had a problem with the stuff. I use it for my Sonoran Desert Toad, and have used it for snakes and lizards before in the past for many years. I have never had mold, nor smelly scents come from the use.

The only problem I have with it is that when it is dry it can get dusty and static cling. Just about any substrate like this, it will stick a bit to the glass and animals it comes in contact with also. That is not a real problem either. Otherwise, I love the stuff. Also works great in a viv mix, just as stated above. Soil, IMO, has way to many risks in using, you never know what is in it or where it came from. Soil also holds a great breeding ground for mold and bacteria (the unhealthy flora of which you do not want) and is not good to use for the basic herper folk who has not a big idea on how to work with it. The coconut substrates work great, deture mold and bacteria from populating and works best IMO for amphibians.

And...I do not keep any water like this in any set-up. It would be much wiser to simply place a small rubbermaid with a bit of water available rather than trying to make a pond such as this. You seriously need a ton of space to pull this off correctly, as well as the proper filtration and water cycle, layers of gravel and proper substrate to pull it off with true success. This, IMO, is something that works great when done correctly, but hard to do without everything working correctly together to create a balance for a healthy environment.

marisa · 03-10-04, 02:22 PM

Well obviously it would be wiser to use a small rubbermaid with water. But frankly ALL the animals in this house are kept in "sterile" enviroments and my roomates wanted to create something for the living room that looked a fair bit more natural. As for filtering, it uses a Fluval although the model number escapes me now. It's a small model. And obviously water changes are done. The pile of grey rocks is also a water pump/water fall.

As for not cleaning enough or being too wet....I assure you that wasn't my issue. The tanks had just been fully torn down, cleaned. I added two inches of Eco Earth to each, misted once per day to create 80% humidity with a dry out later on. The areas that held any moisture through the day ended up covered in mold in two weeks (i.e. any edges around furniture in the tank, around the seal)....Tarantulas don't make their tank filthy in two weeks. I am not lying, or pretending. I do not like Eco Earth. Simple as that. I am sure it works GREAT for you guys! I have just had crap experiences with it, no matter what way I have attempted to use it.

And like I have mentioned twelve times, they are using sphangnum moss in thick layers over the gravel. So any discussion about Eco Earth or soil is a mute point here.

"This, IMO, is something that works great when done correctly, but hard to do without everything working correctly together to create a balance for a healthy environment."

Well until we try out for ourselves, how will we learn? Which is exactly why they are attempting it. Considering this toad lived in a basement for two years being fed spiders by a 80 year old woman, I think its doing fairly well for itself now.

Marisa