Viper bite story

Bighead · 01-30-04, 04:04 PM

OK, I should start out by saying that I'm not into venomous reptiles (girlfriend won't let me get anything that can kill a baby) so I don't know about how pit viper bites are different from other bites or anything. I also did not see the snake, but they killed it and sent it back to the states with her body for positive identification. I'll just explain what happened.

Kelly was walking along a trail with a local girl in the late evening. The local girl was walking in front of her and they were both wearing sandals. The local girl suddenly screamed and jumped forward. When Kelly went up to her to see what happened, she was bitten on the ankle by the snake. The first girl was bitten as well, but from what I understand it was a "warning strike" or something. They both screamed for help and 2 guys were there shortly. One threw a rock at the snake and killed it (not sure why it was still hanging around). They carried the girls to an indoor area and examined her. She was already going into shock. Within 45 minutes from the time she was bitten, she was uncontious and bleeding from her eyes, nose, etc. There was no antivenom on the island and there was no chance of getting some in time. She was dead within 2 hours. I'm not sure what happened to the other girl other than that she lived and wasn't having the same symptoms at the time.
Does this make more sense about why she died? I don't think it was an allergic reaction, but who knows. I'm not sure exactly what species it was, but I was told that it was a green pit viper. Thanks for reading.

kevyn · 01-30-04, 08:34 PM

As was said before green pitviper is a generic name for one of the Tremerisurus(sp), likely a Popes pitviper or a white lipped pitviper, nither of which are normally leathal to humans, or commonly found on the ground. It very well could be an allergic reation to the venom, but no matter what anyone says here it's (however educated) speculation at best. If you want to know the exact cause of death, then a doctor/pathologist is your best bet I'm affraid.

kevyn · 01-31-04, 05:17 AM

By any chance do you know if she was allergic to wasps or bee stings?

Bighead · 01-31-04, 11:52 PM

From what I heard it didn't sound like it was an allergic reaction. It could have been, though. I'm not sure if she was allergic to bees.

CHRISANDBOIDS14 · 02-01-04, 12:24 AM

since when are there green pitvipers on trails in BC? In the winter?

02-01-04, 12:34 AM

sounds phony to me, this girl, that girl, this snake. not saying it did not happen but is there some verification? this happening would definitely have had press from a trustworthy source.

Bighead · 02-01-04, 11:48 PM

There was a previous post stating that this occured in Indonesia, Sumba, to be exact (near what used to be Irian Jaya) . Without going into more unnecessary details, her name was Holly Miller (not kelly like i said earlier. don't know why i did that), and the other "this girl" was a native indonesian and I've forgotten her name. Holly was there training to be a missionary.
I have, however been corrected about the type of snake. According to the article below, the "this snake" was an asian pit viper, not a green pit viper as I mentioned earlier. I'm not sure if that makes any difference about how lethal the bite should have been, but that is what it was.
I tried my best to find an article online about it and only really found one. Here's the link: http://www.cnnw.com/articles/articles5-01-3.html

I hope this makes my story sound a little more credible. I did not intend to use this story to draw attention to myself. I simply thought that some of you in the venomous herp world might be interested in hearing about it.

Cruciform · 02-01-04, 11:59 PM

In a situation where you can't get to help or antivenin in a reasonable amount of time, is the option available to amputate the extremity, or will the poison move too quickly?

kevyn · 02-02-04, 12:06 AM

From what I have just been reading 'asian pitviper' is another general term that refers to a large group of snakes and again the Trimeresurus, which has been established are not normally fatal to humans. They are also not often found on the ground. Which leads me to the conclusion that it wasn't a pitviper that bit her at all and perhaps some elapid or again an allergic reaction. But like I said before, a post mortem is the only way to know for sure.

Bighead · 02-02-04, 12:16 AM

I had a feeling it was just another big group of snakes. Oh well. Next time I visit anybody else invloved in the inccident I will ask them what happened to the snake that bit her. I know they shipped it back to the states in the coffin with her body, but not sure who did what with it after that or if there was ever a specific species confirmed. I will definitely try to find the latin name this time if possible.

Gregg M · 02-02-04, 09:44 AM

I do not doubt that the bite happend and with no AV it proved fatal, but I think some of it may have been exagerated...... If she was bitten on the foot or ankle how can she bleed from the eyes and mouth....... There are only a couple of snakes that may be able to cause this type of reaction, and none of them live in Indonesia.......

Jeremy · 02-02-04, 04:06 PM

Interesting. I belive there is one native pitviper to Iran Jaya (or what was formaly known as Iran Jaya) but I cant remeber the sp. I belive it was a Trimeresurus sp but I am not sure. Maybe a Habu.

Anyway, on PNG which shares the same island as the former I&J, there are no pitvipers native (weather they are or not I am not sure. I belive I had heard there was one on that end, as was mentioned above but I cant recall if that was on a neighboring Island or not. Their herp fauna, definately as far as venomous are concerned is basicly a miox of ssp from Australian animals. With this being said it is common knowledge that Death Adders occur in PNG and Iran Jaya and perhaps a few other islands in the Indonesian acarcpeligo. Is there any chance this could have been the culprit? What were the symptoms if you know? Swelling, massive internal bleeding or was it respitory failure? Of cource any and all of the above mentioned symptoms can be seen in almost any envenomation but if it were absent of local symptoms I would point twords a Death Adder. They are very quick killers and are responsible of for a good majority of snake bite fatalities on the neightboring Island.

Welp, any other info you could share would help us alittle better.

Thanks for the story, be it a sad one:-(

Adios,
J

Bighead · 02-02-04, 04:07 PM

According to all the eyewitnesses that is what happened. No, I can't prove it to you, no I don't feel that I need to. I should have never brought it up in the first place.

TheRedDragon · 02-02-04, 04:33 PM

Sounds like Hemotoxic Venom to me, that's the only venom that I know of that would cause hemorrhaging like that. The snakes that usually contain this type of venom are Solenoglypha (which are snakes that have erectile perforated fangs - folded fangs.) This includes most true vipers with movable front fangs (Viperdae), Pit vipers with movable front fangs (Crotalidae), and Trimeresurus. Some examples of snakes with hemotoxic venom are the Bothriechis schlegelii (Eyelash Viper), Bothrops asper (Fer de Lance), Porthidium nasutum (Hognose Viper), Atropoides nummifer (Jumping Viper), and Agkistrodon bilineatus (The Mexican Moccasin)

Bighead · 02-02-04, 09:36 PM

I searched for "snakes of indonesia" and came up with this page: http://www.expat.or.id/medical/poisonoussnakes.html

It says that the green pit viper (doesn't specify exactly what species) is found in Indonesia and also has hemotixic venom. Like I said, I know very little about venomous snakes, so make of it what you will.