Nursery Cages?

K1LOS · 01-29-04, 07:55 PM

How important is it to have a "Nursery Cage" for young chameleons? i Have built a large cage suitable for a full grown panther, but it will be 2" svl when i get it. The cage is 4x3x2. As far as i'm concerned it seems like it would just be extra space for the cham, but i have heard of keeping them in smaller cages. Wouldn't the size of its enclosure fall under "the more the merrier"? The only downfall i can forsee is trouble catching its food, but if i cup feed it shouldn't be a problem right? your thoughts?

thanks for the info!

Geoff

Bighead · 01-29-04, 07:59 PM

I had problems finding my adult veiled in his 6 foot tall cage. Not that big of a deal, but it was a little scary sometimes. If you cup or hand feed it I think you will be ok.

Collide · 01-29-04, 08:18 PM

Just make sure that he has acces to enough food and it should be fine, as well as small enouph sticks to grap ect...

meow_mix450 · 01-30-04, 01:04 AM

put lots of sticks, not to big, or its not able to grab hold of it. Cup feeding should be fine, if it doesnt eat if all, leave a cup near the bottom, with a branch beside make sure it wont fall, both the cup and the branch, ahrd to expalin, leave it in there for an hour and take it out. this is just wut i do, and it works for me

Meow

dank7oo · 01-30-04, 05:53 PM

Kilos,

Despite much of what has been said, a nursery cage is absolutely essential for your chameleon. 1. It will be hard for you time find him and keep track of his progress. 2. Falling from a high at a younf age is certain death. 3. Many young chameleons wont cup feed until mature, and therefore you must free roam the bugs; your cham will never find them in such a large cage. 4. As youngsters, the cham has to be at 10-12 inches form the UV lamp at most throughout the day. I could keep going, but I think I made my point.

Jason

Sean Day · 01-30-04, 06:29 PM

I have housed all young chameleons in their adult cages from the day I bring them home. I would free range the crix, a young panther should actively search out the food.

meow_mix450 · 01-30-04, 08:15 PM

hmm thats weird how big is a adult cage to you??? people just have different sized just wondering

Meow

Sean Day · 01-30-04, 08:18 PM

3-4 ft. Why do you find it weird?

meow_mix450 · 01-30-04, 08:34 PM

nah its because i just havnt heard a little guy, grow full grown living in an adults cage....hmmm 3-4 feet ya that might explain why.....never heard that before, my adult panther only likes 5-6 foot tall, cages

doesnt like any smaller), what kind of panther???? ya your right, young panther should be able to hunt for there own food.

Meow

tHeGiNo · 01-31-04, 09:00 AM

I am curious as to how many babies those giving advice have produced in order to bestow that manner of counsel? Quoting a few breeders who have bred several different chameleons, it is perfectly fine to do either or. Basically, it is upto your own discretion. Weigh out the advantages and disadvantages and take it from there.

I just wanted to mention that falling from heights is not a certain death. Infact, I have seen quite a few chameleons dropped from adult arm height, onto a hard floor (ie. tiles, laminate, etc.) and be perfectly fine. Of course with such a surface you risk breaking a bone or two. The point is, with the proper foliage, and possibly a substrate to soften a potential fall, there is not that much of a risk. Afterall, chameleons are born climbers, and have prehensile tails for a reason.

Also, chameleons in my opinion are much better off when they are not cup fed. Free roaming the bugs is much more beneficial. And they certainly will be able to forage for their own food. In any case, they do not have cups in the mountains of Yemen where they are native to. Nor do they have their parents hand feed them. Hunting allows for excercise and helps encourage their natural instincts. I am sure they will be able to hunt out their food.

On another side note, I agree with what Sean Day has said. A four foot cage is absolutely acceptable with panther chameleons. Of course, as with just about any reptile, the bigger the better!

Sean Day · 01-31-04, 10:31 AM

Very good post TheGino!

I do not consider myself a expert but have raised 5 different panthers and a few others over the years from baby to adult in their adult cages. I have never seen a healthy panther fall for no reason, but have definitely had one fall while handling. In my experience panthers do not do the drop and run thing when scared like others I have kept.

I used to follow some chameleon lists closely and this question came up a few times. The more experienced (not self proclaimed experts) would always say if possible put them into their adult cages.

I really don't think it matters which way you go, but why spend the money on a extra cage if you don't have to. Personally I loved standing there for a half hour looking for them only to find them in front of my face. LOL

Sean

tHeGiNo · 01-31-04, 10:41 AM

LOL Sean that is one of the more enjoyable parts of chameleon husbandry, trying to find the dang things! LOL!

Most definitely though, thats what I forgot to touch on. The chameleons I had saw fall were ALL the result of handling. I too, have never seen a healthy chameleon fall.

Nor have I seen a healthy chameleon, or any lizard at that, sustain injuries from crickets. It has only been the sick, unhealthy individuals.

DragnDrop · 01-31-04, 10:53 AM

Going by my own experience, I'd say it's okay to house a baby cham in a large cage. My panthers were housed in 'large' cages from the day I got them. They were 5 weeks old which I know was a bit young but I wanted them out of the store, and I'd had experience with raising baby chams so I knew I could make it work. They both had their own 4'h x 3'w x 2'd cage to start off, and had no problems finding their food. They had free roaming crickets as well as suitably sized grasshoppers, wax moths and roaches, just to name a few. Both of them thrived, learned to hunt their prey and never missed a meal because they couldn't find food.

I also raised 3 clutches of Jackson's Chams. Each clutch was housed in a 90 gallon size screen enclosure without them having trouble finding food. After they were about 4-5 weeks old, each clutch was moved to a cage 6'h, and 4' sides. One clutch was 14 and one stillborn, another had 18 and 2 stillborn, the 3rd clutch had 15, one stillborn, and 2 died within hours of birth. All of the babies thrived, none had trouble finding food in that large cage. They figured out where the basking spots were within hours of being put in there.

As long as they have the proper environment, and enough branches/sticks to get where the heat, water and food are, they should have no trouble in a large cage.

Chams will drop to the ground as a means of evading predators or other dangers. They're not the best runners, but can make a fast get-away by dropping a few branches lower, to the ground or even into water below (they're fantastic swimmers). It's not advisable to let them drop or fall unnecessarily onto a hard floor, but there's no need to avoid using a large or tall cage for babies to prevent a fall.

Wild chams survive in the largest 'cage' possible. Even though ours aren't wild, they still have the same instincts, and know that they have to hunt for food and water, and hold on to the branches for dear life.

You have to make your own decisions, no one can decide for you.

Sean Day · 01-31-04, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DragnDrop
Chams will drop to the ground as a means of evading predators or other dangers. They're not the best runners, but can make a fast get-away by dropping a few branches lower, to the ground or even into water below (they're fantastic swimmers). It's not advisable to let them drop or fall unnecessarily onto a hard floor, but there's no need to avoid using a large or tall cage for babies to prevent a fall.

Hi Hilde

Did you ever have your panthers drop and so called run (lol) thing? I don't ever remember seeing my panthers do this although I am sure they could. I did have a male montium that would drop to the ground from the top of a 4 foot cage everytime I walked into the room though.

A little of topic from this thread but I think it was you that posted your outdoor cham cages on KS quite a long time ago. If you still have those pics would you mind reposting them here? I remember it being a fairly informative thread, and getting good ideas from the pics.

Sean

meow_mix450 · 01-31-04, 11:52 AM

yes i have to agree with gino, it is the best way feeding them free roam criekts, a lot of chameleon do enjoy the hunt. I dont like little chams living in such a big cage, from the beginning, but 4 feet is a good size from baby to adult. this is just how i feel lol.

Meow