Piebald Amazons ...anybody got any by chance?

[JuliusSqueezer]

Well...I've tried everywhere else. Might as well ask here too. Anyone know of anyone who happens to have one or more piebald amazons? I have a female...it's looking horribly like she may be the only one anywhere. If this is the case, it's doomed because I am very anti-inbreeding so don't even bother suggesting such a thing. It doesn't matter what sex...I would be as happy with another female and working off two unrelated lines of hets as I would finding her a mate. If anyone knows or has even heard a rumor that someone else has one or more...please let me know. I know the chance of finding one for sale is slim...but a deal could be easily worked out for swapping het offspring I'm sure.

[BoaBoi]

Just breed back to the mother, inbreeding in snakes doesn't really matter. Don't even argue it.

James~

P.S. If you can't find another anywhere and don't breed back to the mother, that is a seriously bad thing. Those snakes you could produce would matter alot in the herping comunity. Not to mention the money you could make that goes back to the herps.

[JuliusSqueezer]

Yah great. I'd rather never see another one than to be any part of one eyed ******** amazons flooding the market someday. Sorry but I don't agree at all with that.

[JuliusSqueezer]

ok...i can't say the R word...lol..how about drain bammaged?

[marisa]

Nothing like that would happen. They would be perfect in every way.

Once you have established them a generation or two you could easily easily get new blood into the line. Even then you wouldn't have to do this, but you easily could.

Marisa

[JuliusSqueezer]

OK...I'm new to all this...pardon my ignorance. I have only been at this really for 31 years or so. So I guess all the messed up bugeyed leucistic texas rats that act nothing at all like the normals...all the one eyed albino boas...all the burm morphs that are dying off in droves from BD are all my imagination? It's just a white spot a little bigger than a quarter and a few single white scales on an otherwise patternless orange. If it doesn't pan out, the world will be no different. If inbreeding is such an easy option and I'm the oddball...I'm really glad I found her first. Corallus are my favorite...so far there has been noone screwing them up as far as I know...and it's sure not going to be me.

[CDN COLDBLOOD]

The problems you list in other snakes stem from repeated inbreeding attempts to bring out recessive alleles with different phenotypes. Your recessive phenotype is already visible, so you would only have to inbreed your animal for one generation. It is unlikely that there would be any abnormal offspring. The Royal Family inbred for many generations before they noticed any genetic defects such as Hemophelia (Historically).
I guess your 31 years experience didn't teach you much about genetics, just husbandry.

[Siretsap]

What ever you decide to do with the snake, I am sure you will choose the decision you are comfortable with.

Do you have a pic of it? I would love to see some.

Also, I do not like inbreeding either, I have a leucistic gecko I bought that has a dented tail due to this, and I saw a few bearded dragons with those too, and some cornsnakes.

[JuliusSqueezer]

Unfortunatly....inbreeding never ends after one generation. If I produce offspring, I can't keep them all...and anyone purchasing them would likely continue inbreeding. The only option that I'm comfortable with long term is starting with unrelated blood and offering for sale only unrelated pairs. If I can't do that...I don't want to be a part of propegating an ongoing inbreeding frenzy. People are constantly inbreeding animals with no regard to how many times the line was inbred before and how many will be inbred once the offspring are out of their hands. This animal was wildcaught and it is likely that she is a product already of naturally occured inbreeding. It is also possible that any new found piebald will be related too...but I'd rather take that slight chance than to just do it on purpose.

anyway...here she is...I took this photo the day I brought her home. I'm a photographer. So I have a pretty cool studio setup lol.

[JuliusSqueezer]

oh...one other thing. If I breed her today...she will have an eight month gestation before any babies are born. It will take any female from that litter 3-4 years ...any male 2-3 years to be breedable and then another 8 months after that...so it's not like I don't have a great deal of time to search for other blood anyway....so why the quick draw to encourage inbreeding right away? What I may do is over a period of a couple of years, breed her twice to 2 different males then outbreed the hets to other unrelated blood a couple of times and then play craps later with the possible hets breeding distant cousins...If I luck up and find a match...then I can outbreed those some more. At any rate...I won't be putting any messed up amazons on the market. I don't expect anything to happen with this project in under 10-15 years....unless I can find some unrelated blood...then maybe in 5or 6 some babies might hit the market.

[dr greenlove]

That is a fine looking critter you have there...very nice.

One thing though, unless i have forgotten much of what i learnt in genetics class at University (many years ago, so i could well be wrong), but it would be impossible to actually know that the patterning on the animal is due to genetic factors..unless and until you breed it with a suitable mate.

And then of course its just luck that the correct genes express themselves and you get the colour you want.

Abnormalities in any animal may be genetic or just due to the environmental conditions it experienced when it was developing.

Either way though, its a nice looking snake.

[JuliusSqueezer]

Dr Greenlove...you are correct. It may not even be genetic. But the bright orange scales surrounding the white is similar to that of some other species that have ended up with this trait. If it proves out, it will be pretty exciting news because I don't know of any other boa of any kind that has popped out any piebalds. I'm not saying none has...I've just never been able to find any mention anywhere. Also...hortulanus genetics are totally unpredictable. You can't even count on producing colors by breeding like animals. A garden phase bred to another garden may still produce colors. 2 colored snakes bred might produce all gardens...Usually they have mixed litters with at least some variety...My last litter was only 5 babies. 3 were halloween with a weird red color bleeding through the background all over...I can't wait to see what they look like as adults. I kinda wish I had kept one. The other two babies were colors...one patterned orange and one almost patternless yellow with a slight splattering of tiny hairlike orange markings on the sides at the rear and a heavily patterend head....So anyway...who know what's up with the genetics of these guys. The paradox trait seemed to prove genetic...Maybe piebald will...maybe it won't. *Shrug* Either way, I'm happy to have her here.

[Jeff_Favelle]

Scar.

[JuliusSqueezer]

It's not a scar. Notice only individual scales are white and there are other white scales in various other places too. Thank you for your opinion though.

[Beardonicus]

Yeah.....thats definitely not a scar. There is no scale damage or any other sign of scarring.