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Old 01-06-04, 01:58 AM   #1
Stav.T
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My definition of a pastel B.c.i warning may take long for page to download...

Hi all

I've been selectivly breeding pastel B.c.i for a long time now. I have two original bloodlines that came from two WC males at around 1990. One is a yellow pastel and the other an orange pastel . I've been on the look out for weird stuff since i buy snakes and there's some really nice WC mutations landing in Canada every year. Including Anery, Pastels, WC.Salmon tails (Centrals), Ghost balls, high yellow balls, axanthic ball, weirdo axanthic ball ( like paradox ) , really high white emmy's and the list goes on and on......

I lost all my snakes in 98' in the great ice storm we had in quebec . To make it brief we didint had electricity for 5 weeks. We had to heat with a wood stove because the generator wasent efficient enough to heat all the house.

All the snakes ( 200+) were placed around it in huge pillowcases which were placed in cardboard boxes....As we( me and my partner at that time ) had to climb on the roof for some deicing 10" to 12" thick to prevent costly damages on the house, a big burm got out and smashed one oil lamp on the floor. They found a 16ft foot burm under the pile of debrie in the basement two weeks later when they were digging with a mechanical shovel. The rest is history. For those who dont know the whole story it will be explained in my website once finished. All my bloodlines and their history will be in it to.

Enough history now...Since then my partner got out of snakes and I restarted all over on my own. I was fortunate enough to purshase some babies I sold in the 90' back from different people, from the original WC bloodlines I had and restarted to breed them....

In a previous post, Nuno's post, there was some questionning on that morph....

Quote:
Very nice. Pastel? Who has pastels in Canada? Might have to get me one of those. Trevor
I think you'll find some here in Canada Trev.

Quote:
"First, what is a "Pastel"? [...] A Pastel is this: A Boa that has an odd overall wash lacking the normal amount of black and a reduction in black pigmentation in particular throughout the pattern. This is particularly apparent in babies, which have the same kind of washed out pattern as Hypos. The saddles as well as the side blotches have less black than "normal". In fact, often the side blotches have no black whatsoever. That's it, no more no less. Now it is unfortunate that this leaves a lot to interpretation. Identifying Pastels can be and is subjective. It is very much a matter of opinion. There are definitely degrees of "Pastelism". How much Pastelism is required to label an animal "Pastel"? I don't know what measure others may use, but I know what I look for in babies. I look for nearly no black in the side pattern. A very small amount of black can be found but nearly none normally. Sorry this can't be more definitive but it just can't."
Chappy, I agree with you for the complete lack or partially of blothes on the sides and the clean background. I have what i call a reduced pattern bloodline of my own that get the same effect tho. See pics bellow. I have to say that is a co-dom gene to. And that there is degrees of pastelism. They also must have a "pastel background".

From my point of view these are what I call pastels and thats what I label them when sold. They also gonna give around 1/4 of pastels when bred to a regular female.

Now here's a pastel Reduced Pattern from my bloodline. It has pastel blood and redused pattern blood as well. You can see the reduction of saddles on the sides they are almost non existant. It has the Reduced Pattern in it ...The saddles on his back are reduced as well. The most important is the background color in my eyes.


This one is also from my bloodline but dosent have the reduced pattern bloodline in it. In contrary of what is believed they get more pastel color as they age. Its around one year old on those pics. I produced it in 2002 and it was sold to a friend of mine "Kirk Perry" we selected it from a litter that had four pastels in it, with Mike Perry. ( a good friend of mine at that time )....



This one is a plain clean reduced pattern of my bloodline. Its a good pic to compare with the pastels. And understand what i mean by clean sides in the reduced pattern.. Its far from the pastel color. What do you think?


And another baby see the top saddles again. Its another reduced pattern.


My goal with those mutations ( and some others which i'll show sometime later ) is to put some "Salmon Hypo" in them and see what they give after. I think they gonna produce some weird nice looking babies.

If there is something that you dont understand in this text please tell me i'll try to explain it better , my english is not that good.

Hope you like,
Stav
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Old 01-06-04, 02:31 AM   #2
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Those are some fantastic looking BCI! Best of luck with your future pastel endevours
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Old 01-06-04, 02:37 AM   #3
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Damn those snakes are nice!!
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Old 01-06-04, 03:00 AM   #4
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Just awesome.:bugged:
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Old 01-06-04, 01:08 PM   #5
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It sounded at first that "pastel" was a form of hypomelanism but from those examples it seems that isn't the case... there is all kinds of dark black on those snakes. What I'm seeing now is a yellowish colouring, aside from the obvious reduced patterns which you are saying is not in itself a pastel trait, if I understand correctly... I think I'm more confused than ever now but it seems you're saying that the yellowish background colour is what is important. This is a difficult trait to define, most can be spelled out in a single sentence (amel, hypomel...etc.) this one eludes me entirely.

This is a good reason for breeders and everyone else to abandon these cute names for traits that tell you nothing about the animal's characteristics. If a snake has a certain type of trait, say it's a form of hypomelanism then we should be calling it a hypomel, not a reverse chocolate marble tulip juicy tree or any other sort of BS that is just designed to lure in newbs at the pet shops.
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Old 01-06-04, 01:14 PM   #6
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Very nice project stav hope all goes well for you.
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Old 01-06-04, 11:26 PM   #7
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Awesome looking boas Stav! I really like that top one, and the second from the bottom!
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Old 01-07-04, 04:55 PM   #8
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Thanks all for your comments

Mousekilla,
Quote:
It sounded at first that "pastel" was a form of hypomelanism but from those examples it seems that isn't the case...
Thats right Mousekilla. Thats what i think.

Here's an example of what I qualify as a hypo. Not a salmon hypo because there is some black in the tail.
If you look at the saddles though there's no black pigmentation in most of her body. You can also see that its not a pastel if you compare her to the pastel pics. Do you understand me? This bloodline also produces dwarfs. This female is a 96' and she's about 5 to 5,6'' feet long.


Now this one is a baby from her. She was born with three colours. On her sides she had a grayish large band from head to tail and 2 orange large lines bordering the grayish line . Unfortunatly they are disapearing slowly but you can still see the two diminished orange lines on her sides
I'll seek for some pictures I took back when she was born. She was born in 2002 and her father was a narrow saddle yellow pastel male.
Note the pale brown little spots between her saddles typical of hypos and the white patches she has in her saddles. She is not a pastel. I will pair her up with a salmon hypo when she's ready.


Hope you understand what i mean,
Stav
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Old 01-07-04, 10:00 PM   #9
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Thanks Stav, I'm sure I could never explain what pastel is to anyone else but I think I get the idea somewhat. All I know for sure is you have some awesome boas, that last one is in particular is just incredible (but not a pastel, right?). So though I don't quite get what you're doing I hope you keep doing it.

My difficulty with snake genetics is I tend to want it to be more mathematical than possible. I want this gene plus another gene to equal a particular result but appearance is so variable even among wild type morphs that it isn't possible to be certain or precise. It gets even more complicated when you discover that there are all different types of hypomelanism and other traits... maybe I need to stop analyzing them so much and just enjoy them.
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Old 01-08-04, 03:31 AM   #10
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nice snakes Stav............
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Old 01-08-04, 04:26 AM   #11
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Thanks

Mousekilla,

Quote:
that last one is in particular is just incredible (but not a pastel, right?).
Thats right she is not a pastel. She is simply the product of the hypo female and a narrow saddle yellow pastel male.
For the pastels...they produce around 1/4 of pastels in each litter.


Simon,

It took me some time to understand the smilies but I get it now You are an artist man hehehe
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Old 01-08-04, 11:31 AM   #12
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COLUBOID:

Put me on that order list on some Canada Pastels indeed.

Hear from you soon I hope.

Cya...

Tony
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Old 01-08-04, 10:08 PM   #13
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No problemo Tony,

As soon as I get some. You seem to have a very interesting collection there. Are they all breeding size?

Stav
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Old 01-10-04, 01:16 AM   #14
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STAV T:

Hi again, actually 1/4 of my collection listed and non- listed is at breeding age and some females show some promise right now with full bellies, me a happy grandfather I guess.

Getting back to definition on PASTELS:

I think any boa willing to wear a DON JOHNSON - MIAMI VICE blazer with the white pants should be called a PASTEL............lol.

JOKING of course.

Cya...

Tony
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Old 01-10-04, 02:24 AM   #15
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Here is a pastel in my collection


Head Shot little or no speckles very thin saddles.




Body shot the side markings are almost missing.



Tail shot very bright and clean.



This snake has matured into an almost solid orange/pink adult. Many pastels also start out as rather drab but clean babies and develop the pink coloration as they age.

Pastels have been proven co dominant (1/2 off offsrpring in litter will be pastel) also they have been bred into salmons and anerys which has cleaned those morphs up quite a bit. Jeff Ronne has ivory anerys which are basically pastel anery boas very clean and light just missing the red.

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