shed/eye problem

maria · 12-12-03, 06:30 PM

My snake develops these funny little caps on his eyes. First time we saw them, we thought he had shed and left the eye skin behind. But then he eventually shed and they dissapeared. Now he has them again and he won't shed or eat. It's been a month now! I am getting worried, he seems healthy and is active, he doesn't have any mites or act as though he has a cold. He has always been a difficult eater, acts afraid of the prey. I've even tried live fuzzies, and lizard maker drops.. to make the mice smell like lizzards, but no luck. Anyone have any idea what could be wrong, or what I could do? We have tried misting is cage every other day.....because since it is now winter here, we thought maybe the air was to dry. Oh, in case I didn't mention it, he is a king snake....Utah, mountain king. He is orange and black and white striped. He is about a year old. I have a heat lamp, and a night heat lamp and an under the tank heater. He's active, so I don't think it's too cold for him. I use bark as a substraight that I got from the pet strore.

Removed_2815 · 12-12-03, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by maria
But then he eventually shed and they dissapeared.

If you are seeing this right before a shed then all you are witnessing is the clouding over of the eyes prior to ecdysis. Not going to go into too much detail here, but as the old skin is separating from the new epidermal layer, various liquid compounds form in between the layers in order to successfully slough off the old skin, this is why they look particularly drab prior to ecdysis.
Often, the "blue eyes" is the first indicator of an impending shed and is nothing to be alarmed about. Just don't bother the snake during this time as they are feeling particularly vulnerable (as they are unable to see), make sure he/she has a secure hiding location and make sure the humdity is where it should be for the particular species so that shedding will be successful (you can offer a moist hide box if you desire). Also, avoid feeding during this period, and no handling.....
Here is one of my hognose snakes prior to ecdysis:

Good luck!
Cheers,
Ryan M Bolton

~Suntiger~ · 12-12-03, 06:56 PM

Don't snakes sometimes retain eyecaps after shedding everything else though?

Removed_2815 · 12-12-03, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ~Suntiger~
Don't snakes sometimes retain eyecaps after shedding everything else though?

If they shed improperly then they may retain the eye-caps. This is a bad thing......
If husbandry is on par and the animal is healthy then it should never retain the eye caps, if left unchecked and unremedied infections and blindness may ensue.
Cheers,
RMB

maria · 12-24-03, 11:16 AM

No, these are not the normal eye clouding that occur when a snake is about to shed. I have six snakes, and I am well aware of what that looks like. No these are actually caps over his eyes, they are raised and everything. The first time we saw this, we thought maybe he had retained his eye caps. So, we bath/soaked him, and tried to gently rub them off. Didn't work, and we didn't want to try to hard. So, we put him back and eventually he shed them. This time he hasn't and he hasn't shed! He also, hasn't eaten for over a month now! Today, I put in an annole....he is really found of them, but they are expensive. He seems interested, and is following it slowly around the cage. I hope he goes for it! He does have a moist hide, we actually put a live plant in his tank, and he likes to curl up in the dirt, which we water regularly. Heck, the plant looks better then he does, and it's a tropical plant! He also has a hide and a log he can climb in and out of, as well as a large water dish he can soak in. We have tried soaking him a couple of times. I am afraid that he is going to die. ;-( My, dad won't let me take him to the vet, cause it costs to much, more then the snake did.

Removed_2815 · 12-24-03, 12:18 PM

All I can say is that is sounds like retained eye-caps, and that's the best diagnosis you can hope to get on a forum where we are unable to see the animal.
Take it to a vet. Cost shouldn't be a factor, and should have been taken into consideration before bringing the animal home. Don't let the animal die because it costs too much to get the help it deserves.
Best of luck,
RMB

maria · 12-24-03, 02:33 PM

Well, I just read that the snakes go into hybernation, and stop eating. I am now thinking that maybe that is what is going on. As far as the vet goes, I doubt he can do anything more for him then I am. I mean, you can't just rip the eyecaps off. And it's not like a disease that you can give it medication for.

Removed_2815 · 12-24-03, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by maria
As far as the vet goes, I doubt he can do anything more for him then I am.

How do you know Maria? I must not have noticed the DVM after your name. Is your doubt worth the animal's life? No, it is not...
The snake is likely not going into brumation unless he/she has access to a natural photoperiod or if you are manipulating the temperature some how. However, it is a possibility that the snake may be going off feed due to the time of the year (though this would not explain the snakes eye problem).
My advice is take it to the vet, it is your choice to heed this advice or not.
R

CHRISANDBOIDS14 · 12-24-03, 11:42 PM

K sorry but that is stupid. A trip to the vet for that should not cost more than the snake(unless you bought something with problems). Im sure the vet can do a heck of alot more than you could. Are you just going to let it suffer to death while asking questions? We cant do much if we cant see the problem or get a better diagnosis on it. Give it to someone who can take care of it and take it to the vet, no? Dont worry too much about the eating, snakes can go for up to a year(not common) without eating. Anyways try to get it to the vet.

Derrick · 12-25-03, 01:00 AM

Dont you check the sheds to make sure the eye caps came off. That the first thing i do when i remove the shed from encloure. If you still have the last shed kicking around check. Did it have any problems shedding?

Linds · 12-26-03, 04:27 PM

I agree with Ryan, the dollar value of a snake should not be the determining factor in its care. You took the animals' life in to your hands, so it is your responsibility to provide whatever is necessary.

Quote:

Originally posted by CHRISANDBOIDS14
K sorry but that is stupid. A trip to the vet for that should not cost more than the snake(unless you bought something with problems).

Not true. Even a standard vet check and fecal may run $60 CDN or so, this is for healthy snakes. If something is discovered, treatment and tests can be quite expensive.

maria · 12-27-03, 05:37 PM

Well, he shed finally, and the eye caps came with it and he looks good now. He is a weird snake the way his eye caps raise up like that, and it seemed to take an unusually long time for him to shed this time. I am thinking that his metabolism is slowing down, either from not eating or from hybernation. He looks good now, skin is shiny and healthy. He still hasn't eaten, but he has always been a real finicky eater! I wasn't terrible worried about the eyes, because I've seen this with him before. Just thought it was unusual and was curious if anyone else has seen it. It was the not eating for almost two months now that was worrying me. But, he seems healthy considering. I was pretty sure he hadn't retained his eye caps, 'cause he hadn't shed yet. He also has no other health issures. No, mites....no bowel problems....skin is good....he's active.... Just a difficult eater. I shouldn't be such a nervous owner. I'm Italian....so my attitude is "Manga! Manga!"
I take excellent care of my snakes, and I am sure if I pitched a good enough of a fit, my father would let me take him, but it will cost me and I need to make sure it's necessary. Which is why I asked you guys for help. I can't control my father, and force him to spend his money the way I want him to. Soon, I'll get a job of my own, and it won't be an issue. But, I don't think I should be judged and attacked by everyone for not being in control of my father and his attitude. I take excellent care of these snakes, certainly they are better off with me then in the wild. If they got sick there....who's going to help them? huh? I invested my gift money and allowance for all their supplies, and I even grow my own mice for them, to insure that they don't get any diseased rodents. I think you all need to get off you high horses! You guys aren't god, and even if you have an unlimited amount of money to spend on vets, you still can't insure that they won't die from an illness. My responsibility is to care and feed for them, and keep them clean, and from harm. Hopefully, give them a long and better life, then if they were in the wild. Which I am doing!

maria · 12-27-03, 05:45 PM

By the way, my vet charges 75 dollars just for a visit! Never mind any tests or medication. Been there! He is the only reptile vet in my area, so I don't have a choice in the matter. I took one of my snakes there that was really sick, came to me with mites. I spent 75 dollars for the vet, 10 for the test, and 19 for the medication. 104 dollars before tax! The snake cost me 40! So, I am not quick to run to the vet! I got rid of the mites, and all 6 of my snakes are healthy!!! I am still paying off that vet bill!

Removed_2815 · 12-27-03, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by maria
You guys aren't god

There goes my belief system.

Maria, I think you missed our point, and I don't think it needs to be restated.
Cheers,
R