Has anyone ever had this happen (shedding anomaly in hognose)??

Removed_2815 · 12-01-03, 01:08 PM

Greetings,
A little background information: I have an adult female Western hognose that I obtained in July of 2003. Since I have had her I have had absolutely no problems whatsoever, she has never refused food and consumes 1-2 adult mice (f/t) every 10 days.
She shed for the first time in my care on October 25, 2003 and has been very active since then and has consumed 7 mice since her shed (according to my records). Her activity has decreased over the last couple of days and upon checking on her this morning I have noticed that her eyes have gone blue and is entering an ecdysis cycle again. I should mention that she does not have mites (this I am very sure of) and she is void of any external stressors (improper temperatures, loud noises, excessive movement, etc).
Has anyone ever had this happen?
She is in very close proximity to my adult male (separate cages with a visual barrier) who just completed a shed himself, could this be due to some sort pheromone communication?
Thanks for any help.
Cheers,
RMB

Vanan · 12-01-03, 01:17 PM

Ryan, it seems to be a common occurence with alot of colubrids. People get wierded out when their adult snake sheds too often all of a sudden. I'm not gonna be of much help here cos I'm still learning but just thought I'd add that it could be the presence of the male. Actually it could be a number of reasons. Increased growth (more food available than before), slight scarring on body, minor wound in mouth (can go unnoticed by most).

We have had that happen to one of ur snakes. Not sure which one as I think it was one of Katt's. But there seemed to be no reason for it to be shedding so much. It was a healthy adult. But it seems to be a phase. They do it for a bit, then go back to normal.

Another interesting thought would be that maybe she's getting rid of any impurities in her body. Just like how humans exfoliate and get rid of "bad" stuff, she could be doing that too. She may have too much of a certain mineral and dispenses it via ecdysis. Nothing to worry about in any case.

Keep us posted. We may be on the verge of some breakthrough information! Wooo!

Removed_2815 · 12-02-03, 12:37 AM

Thank you Vanan, I appreciate the insight.
I have seen this in otherwise healthy animals but I hadn't expected it in a hognose (an animal that sheds so infrequently in the first place).
I hadn't thought of the abrasion in the mouth theory, quite plausible. Since snakes will go into rapid shed cycles due to epidermal injury, I suppose the cycle may also be triggered by an injury to the mouth. Of course, I only feed f/t, but I suppose since they still have claws it could cause this.
Hmmmm, either way, I do not think her health is in jeopardy.
I will keep all apprised.
Cheers,
R

Stockwell · 12-02-03, 02:05 AM

Hi Ryan...got your email... Hope you don't mind me answering here
In agreement with one of Vanan's points, snakes with ailments will often shed at excellerated frequency.
I've seen this type of thing many times, and the reason isn't always evident, nor is it always reason for alarm.
Rodent bites, or other minor skin abbrasions, bacterial problems, both internal and external, any form of ailment,outwardly visible or not can be the cause of excellerated Ecdysis. It appears to be a serpent auto response to "fixing a problem"
A long period of fasting followed by a period of high calorie intake, can also cause a "catching up" in the shed cycle...
I doubt it's pheromonal. I don't believe snakes shed as a form of communication or to attrack mates. Sure they often mate after shedding but that is probably due to the higher presence of scent on the moist fresh skin

I'd keep a close watch for any "problems", especially skin problems, that might turn up, but I wouldn't worry too much. Try changing substrates.
It's brumation time anyway...If you're planning on cooling her down for 04 breeding,that might slow her shed cycles.
I really hate when snakes shed in brumation... It often makes a mess of them until Spring, as some specimens, wont actually slough the skin when they are cold.. It sits and goes all crinkly.
That by the way, will also prompt an excellerated shed cycle come spring.
I've had to soak and peel old skin from snakes that didn't properly shed in hibernation. That always results in the start of new shed cycle. usually within days

brig · 12-03-03, 02:17 PM

Hi Ryan,
Don't really know the answer, but wanted to add my experience to the pot. We have a male western hog, who's shed cycles are erratic to say the least.
We got him in October 02, he shed shortly after,
then went 'blue' in March, didn't shed (much panic in our household!), seemed perfectly ok,
then went blue in July, and duly shed (albeit in pieces and not whole),
then shed again, without us spotting any blue stage, in October,
and then...
here we are again, he was very, very blue and very, very grumpy last week, so we're waiting for YET ANOTHER shed. Third one in 4 months, after nearly 10 months without one.
We can't figure it out.
He eats his food sideways, and acts just like a fat greedy healthy hoggie.
I still worry, but I'm trying not to. I may have to come to terms with the fact that this is how it's gonna be!

If anyone does figure it out, please do let me know...

cheers,
Briggy.

Vanan · 12-03-03, 04:47 PM

Ok, does anyone else know of this phenomenon happenning with others species.

After speaking with Katt, I found that I was wrong about knowing an adult snake which would do so. It was an anery KSB and it was a yr and a half when it was doing this. No accelerated growth feeding schedule or anything. In fact, we couldn't feed it as much cos it would be in shed almost everytime we wanted to feed it.

Removed_2815 · 12-03-03, 06:40 PM

Thanks Roy.

Brig,

Thanks for relating your experiences with your hognose. It is comforting knowing that it may just be the way of it with these animals. I certainly would be interested in figuring out what the advantage of this odd shedding cycle is but I'll settle with just knowing that I am not alone

Thanks again,
R
P.S. I will post when/if she sheds, her eyes are clear now so it should be in the next few days if she is actually going to shed.

Simon Sansom · 12-03-03, 10:51 PM

Hi Ryan,

Just my two cent's worth...

I had a pefectly healthy pet adult Scrub X Carpet Python hybrid who, for a period of about a year would go into an ecdysis cycle EVERY time he'd feed. Then he suddenly just "snapped out" of it - Very strange. That's the only time I ever seen this particular phenomenon.
I have absolutely no idea why...?

Cheers!

Simon

Simon Sansom · 12-03-03, 10:55 PM

Hi Ryan,

Just my two cent's worth...

I had a pefectly healthy pet adult Scrub X Carpet Python hybrid who, for a period of about a year would go into an ecdysis cycle EVERY time he'd feed. Then he suddenly just "snapped out" of it - Very strange. That's the only time I have ever seen this particular phenomenon.
I have absolutely no idea what may have caused it...?

Cheers!

Simon

Removed_2815 · 12-04-03, 12:05 AM

Thanks Simon,
It is very interesting nonetheless, perhaps only to stress out us keepers! I suppose it may never be apparent what the stressor is (or if there is one present). Obvious triggers aside (mites, burns and other trauma, pre-/post-ovulation, etc) there are probably many other signals involved that we may never know of and I am sure the snakes are no worse for wear from it. We'll see how she does....
Cheers,
R

brig · 12-05-03, 09:29 AM

Any progress on the shed, Ryan?
We're still waiting - two weeks since blue phase, and he was up and about yesterday, scratching around with his nose, we thought 'this is it', then went back to bed again, and I haven't seen him since.

My conclusion? You're right, it's just to drive us keepers nuts.

cheers,
Briggy

Removed_2815 · 12-05-03, 11:41 AM

Briggy,
No progress yet..... She is still pretty inactive and her colours look particularly washed out (not that a hognose has an incredibly vibrant colouration to begin with). According to my records, my hognoses shed about 5-7 days after I first notice that the eyes are blue, so I likely will not see any action until the 7th or 8th.
I wish snakes could talk

Cheers,
R

Removed_2815 · 12-05-03, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RMBolton
so I likely will not see any action until the 7th or 8th

Well, she's pulled one over on me again, she just finished a complete shed! Weirdo....
R

sapphire_moon · 12-07-03, 02:46 AM

other species? All 3 of my snakes usually go into shed at the same time ,the corn snake usually goes into shed more often, but when she hits a shed, the other 2 usually end up being in shed to. The other 2 are ball pythons.

brig · 12-07-03, 10:16 AM

Ryan,

Glad to hear she's done the deed!!! What's your secret???!!!

Our little boy is still steadfastly refusing to comply! And we're going on holiday for two weeks from Wednesday, and our snake-sitter is not experienced in bad-shed scenarios. Aaargh.

He still gets up each day, has a mooch around and seems to be scrubbing his nose. I can't tell whether it's his usual trying to find that elusive gap for escape, looking for a juicy mouse (he hasn't eaten now in over two weeks) or is having a problem breaking free of his skin.

Aargh. And one of the corns was blue last night, although his sheds are usually ok. I think our snakesitter is going to have an interesting time!

Watch this (so far not very interesting) space...

cheers
Briggy