Sand as a substrate

Emily-Fisher · 11-01-03, 05:53 PM

In the past, I have had several leopard gecko owners/breeders tell me that adult leopard geckos actually enjoy having sand a substrate more than papertowels. I too would rather use sand for my adults since it is much more attractive than paper towels. However, I am still unbelievably concerned about using it and have some questions to ask about it first.

If I was to use sand, I would use washed playsand since it's really small and if it gets consumed, it can be passed through my leos' systems more easily than other sands. BUT... at what size/age should the leo be for playsand to be a perfectly size substrate?

I would also like your own opinions on using sand as a substrate. I very rarely feed my leos crickets. I usually only feed them mealies, silks, waxies and butterworms in a dish so I'm not <i>too </i> concerned about impaction but whatever experience you can share with me about using sand would be much appreciated.

Thank you!

Jeff_Favelle · 11-01-03, 08:13 PM

Sand is very very tiny glass particals. Draw your own conclusions on that, LOL!

JeffT · 11-01-03, 08:18 PM

Ive recently switched to it, I think it is pretty good. I just feed out of a bowl with slipepry sides, the crix cant escape it.

makaveli · 11-01-03, 08:51 PM

I use it for my 2 juvies and I haven't had any problems (yet) and I feed them crix and waxworms in a dish. I guess everyones experience with sand is different? I use a new repti-cal that is almost as fine as the calcium powder I dust the crix with. The guy at my local petstore said he uses sand and has had no problems with the leo's he has at his home, and he said he has had problems with papertowels. I am not sure about playground sand though. but papertowels are cheaper!!

Tim and Julie B · 11-02-03, 03:50 AM

Leos may come from dry arid regions, but not sandy ones. If you want natural, use tile for the substrate and build some very sturdy rock structures for climbing and add some "natural" looking caves. I will never again use sand. I will never again recommend sand.

Julie

Emily-Fisher · 11-02-03, 07:36 AM

Julie, why is that? What happened in the past that makes you say that?

drewlowe · 11-02-03, 01:06 PM

Sand sucks!!!!! Sorry to say it but it does. Too high of a risk for me to take. As julie suggested i would try slate i have one 20 gallon cage with it and it looks great!!! If you don't want to use slate then try bed a beast or eco earth (looks better than paper towels). It works great and very very slim chance of impactation.

Sand has cause impactation and so has lizard litter. For me at least and i will never put my guys and gals in that situation again!!!

Here's a link to what my gecko cage used to look like. Right now they are on paper towels but that is going to change very soon. Me and my boyfriend are about ready to fix thier cage up real nice. With huge rock chunks that we are going to break into smaller pieces to give them more of thier natural environment. I just hope it works out like we are hoping.

http://groups.msn.com/TheReptilesPar...to&PhotoID=105

Phox · 11-02-03, 01:15 PM

Drew,

That was a nice looking settup! Was that Bed-A-Beast or Eco-Earth? I bought some Bed-A-Beast a few weeks ago and the stuff really stunk when wet, like mold. The stuff advertises odorless but I was just curious to see if anyone had a problem with the smell of it. I think I might of just got a bad batch.

drewlowe · 11-02-03, 01:29 PM

Phox i use mostly bed a beast. I can never find eco earth in my area. I've never had a problem using it. It does have a small amount of smell when i first break it down but after it's completly dry there's nothing. The smell is kinda musky (maybe) if that's the right comparison. I absolutly love the stuff!!! It make for a great humid hide also. I would just pick up one of the hides and spray the bed a beast and i would have the perfect humid hide. I guess the only down side would be that crickets can breed in the bed a beast if kept moist all the time. I'm still going to be using bed a beast in my new cage for the humid hide and nesting site. It works great for a nesting site!!!

Bed a beast i have found works great!!! It's the only substrate that i personally have not had a problem with and my leos seem to like it (besides slate tiles).

matt_winter · 11-02-03, 04:18 PM

drewlowe, when you are finsihed designing the cage and you take pictures i would really like to see them because i want to redo my cage also. I need more ideas on building things and buying things

Thanks

cpt_retic · 11-02-03, 04:24 PM

try aquarium gravel , thats what a couple of friends of mine use. I don't know that much about geckos so its jus my 2cts.

Tim and Julie B · 11-02-03, 05:16 PM

Aquarium gravel? No way! The stones are still small enough for leos to ingest, and I don't even want to imagine an impaction caused by that! The reason I refuse to use sand is because of the quantity of sand the leos will eat. If you want to see for yourself, keep them on sand for 1-2 weeks then switch to paper towels. You'll get the hint once they begin defecating. You wouldn't believe how much sand will be in the feces. Of course, I don't recommend trying it, because and impactin could result, even that time period.
Julie

gargoyle · 11-04-03, 10:47 AM

I've used pretty much everything, "I've" never experienced a juvi or adult get impacted from any thing. Not to say it can't or hasn't happened, I know it has! Personally I use paper towels for all juvis and hatchlings though. But I do use a product similar to calci sand for my adults, I would never use play sand as their is no quality control for what actually goes into it (size and material) you could end up with some very sharp pieces of stone/glass that we'd never notice but to the gecko it's like swallowing a hand full of knives!

Now we've heard what everyone doesn't use or won't use,, how about he give this person some ideas and let them know what we are using!

hatchlings-juvis paper towels
Adults- calci sand and similar products (no play sand)

KristenM · 11-04-03, 11:58 AM

Good info Eyespy! I will reconsider keeping my leos on sand!

Thanks

eyespy · 11-04-03, 12:10 PM

I've seen plenty of owners freak out when they see how much sand has been flushed out of the digestive tracts of leos kept on sand. Chronic impaction occurs when grains of sand slowly accumulate in the digestive tract over time, often as a result of tongueflicking. That is far more common than an acute impaction where a clump of sand causes a blockage, and is much harder to detect and diagnose. It's usually not picked up until a dead animal is brought in for necropsy.

The usual outcome is rapid weight loss, followed by death within just days or weeks. Basically, most sand-impacted lizards starve to death from the sand blocking nutrient absorption. Most never develop an acute blockage that has warning signs. On average it takes 3 to 5 years for a chronic impaction to be fatal.

My friend David the bowel surgery specialist often says that sand is going to send all his kids to college and pay for his vacation home. We just hate the stuff and don't think it's safe for any reptile. David sees about 150 leos a year who die from chronic sand impaction and is able to save around 50 a year. Most are brought in far too late to help.