Painting tanks

Smurf · 10-05-03, 02:54 PM

I have some tanks that are home made but they are painted with gloss paint.

They are for leopard geckos and I have tested them b4 I put anything in them and they let off fumes when the get warm.

Is this something that will stop or will I have to paint over the gloss with something else?

I have heard about using the liquid plastic that is used for melamine and wondered if this could over the gloss and would this stop the fumes also how long would I have to leave it to dry b4 putting anything in them?

I certainly dont want to hurt my animals so if anyone could help would be much appreciated.

Linds · 10-05-03, 11:10 PM

Melamine paint will offgas as well since it is an oil-based paint. What kind of gloss paint is it? An epoxy will give a 100% seal against any fumes and whatnot. I'm hesitant to recommend a urethane since I am not exactly sure on the type of paint used, and urethanes do not provide a seal, just a resistance.

Invictus · 10-06-03, 12:19 AM

*sigh*

Melamine paint hardens to a plastic-like enamel. It DOES NOT offgas, and if it did, then store bought melamine sheets would too. And guess what... they don't.

Jeff_Favelle · 10-06-03, 01:23 AM

Its not the melamines that off-gas. Its the glues that hold the layers together.

Invictus · 10-06-03, 08:39 AM

Those don't offgas either, Jeff. Maybe immediately after drilling them, and even then only for a few minutes.

Jeff_Favelle · 10-06-03, 11:34 AM

That's weird because there's a whole industry now for changing kitchen cabinets with the thought that the melamine shelving is off-gassing formaldehyde. I guess people are getting ripped.

Either way, I never use the stuff. Too heavy, too chippy, doesn't come in any colors I like, nor in the thickness that I want for any projects.

Derrick · 10-06-03, 11:57 AM

I think formaldehyde was used as a wood preservative in the past but in Canada I think that pratices is now outlawed. Mainly due to formaldehyde showing up in soil tests around school playgrounds. I could be wrong but a lot of the playgrounds in my city have been replaced in the last few years.

Invictus · 10-06-03, 01:58 PM

I believe Derrick is right on this, and I had a conversation with a cabinetmaker at Home Depot where he mentioned something to the effect that melamine is twice as heavy as it used to be because they have changed the glue they use, etc. Maybe it is because regulations have changed.

Derrick · 10-06-03, 08:10 PM

actually i checked back through some article and it was arsenic that they were talking about. my bad Im not sure about the formaldehyde

Linds · 10-06-03, 11:07 PM

If anyone wants to debate that materials such as oriented strand board, particle board/melamine, etc. are not made with any toxic substances that continue to offgas for some time, put me in a room with it

I experience trouble breathing and mild headaches when I'm exposed to it after a while.

Quote:

Originally posted by Invictus
Melamine paint hardens to a plastic-like enamel. It DOES NOT offgas, and if it did, then store bought melamine sheets would too. And guess what... they don't.

Melamine paint aka "Plastic in Colours" by Varathane DOES offgas. As far as I know it isn't the exact product applied to melamine sheets. It is an oil-based enamel paint that provides a moderate resistance to humidity. Have you ever used it? I was considering it for a while, until I researched it further. I don't know a single person that has been pleased with the result... it stunk for weeks and weeks, even after attempts to seal it with urethanes.. the gasses still made their way through. Also, just because you cannot smell something is not to say it isn't offgassing. Not all gasses have a strong odour, many are completely odourless.

I wish our former resident safe building materials member, Quervo would appear back here but I haven't seen him post in some time

He did an incredible amount of research on these products... woods, paints, finishes of all sorts. Many oil-based products can offgas for in excess of 3 years! I have a cabinet in my house made from pine and melamine and it stinks like hell!... 16 years later!!! <a href="http://www.geocities.com/safe_havens/">Here</a> is his site... last I was there it was still incomplete.

Invictus · 10-07-03, 10:02 AM

Melamine has been used for DECADES on every kind of herp without an issue. If the stuff does offgas, evidently it is not harmful to herps. This whole "I hate melamine / I love melamine" debate has become even more popular than the "should I house my snakes together" debate.

Next to rubbermaids, Melamine is the #1 most recommended herp enclosure material, and is used by hundreds of breeders and enthusiasts with good reason. And it provides way more than "moderate resistance to humidity." Like I said, I don't know where you folks in Ontario are buying your melamine, but I have seen melamine enclosures actually hold standing water (not just humidity, but standing water) for WEEKS without bubbling. I bet 95% of all of the avid herpers on this board DO or HAVE used melamine cages with a great deal of success. Why do you suppose that is, hmmmmm? Maybe because there isn't much fact to the OSB/Particle Board/MDF/Melamine being harmful to herps mumbo jumbo. What is toxic to a human may not be toxic to a reptile. Fine, maybe it does offgas. But has there ever been a study on how this affects herps? I haven't seen any. I could show you hundreds, maybe thousands of herp owners who can prove that their herps are perfectly healthy WITH their Melamine cages, though.

Quote:

Either way, I never use the stuff. Too heavy, too chippy, doesn't come in any colors I like, nor in the thickness that I want for any projects.

Ok, too heavy - OH YEAH. Too Chippy - No doubt there, if you're not careful. Doesn't come in colors you like????? At Home Depot they have it in white, black, brown, cherry wood, oak, etc etc. Have you really looked at what's available? Not in the thickness you want? I've seen it in 1/4", 1/2", 5/8", 3/4", and 1". What size do you use?

Linds · 10-09-03, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Derrick
I think formaldehyde was used as a wood preservative in the past but in Canada I think that pratices is now outlawed. Mainly due to formaldehyde showing up in soil tests around school playgrounds. I could be wrong but a lot of the playgrounds in my city have been replaced in the last few years.

The main concern with all the playgrounds was the pressure-treated wood containing arsenic and having it leak in to the grounds and water, not formaldehyde. LOL... green wood doesn't even look healthy

However, MDF (melamine) and many other types of plywood-type building materials do contain formaldehyde, along with many other types of preservatives/carcinogens.

Quote:

Originally posted by Invictus
Melamine has been used for DECADES on every kind of herp without an issue. If the stuff does offgas, evidently it is not harmful to herps. This whole "I hate melamine / I love melamine" debate has become even more popular than the "should I house my snakes together" debate.

It has been proven to be harmful to humans exposed to it over a long period of time, with the exceptions of people that have sensitivities to those type of chemicals. It isn't the melamine coating that is the problem, but rather the MDF it's covering. No studies have been done on herps, and I don't think there is much the debate you claim in terms of safety. I think the big debate about the I hate melamine - I love melamine is more in terms of its properties in terms of actual construction.

Quote:

Melamine is the #1 most recommended herp enclosure material, and is used by hundreds of breeders and enthusiasts with good reason.

Hmmmm. Recommended by who? Look at most of the breeders down south, not usually the material of choice. Personally I don't know of many breeders at all recommend that it, especially any boa breeders or those with high humidity animals, usually people that just keep them as pets. After a breeding season or two with boas, those enclosures are ready to kick. I personally want my enclosures to last 15 years or more, not just one or two.

Quote:

Fine, maybe it does offgas. But has there ever been a study on how this affects herps? I haven't seen any. I could show you hundreds, maybe thousands of herp owners who can prove that their herps are perfectly healthy WITH their Melamine cages, though.

No studies have been done so it is all pretty much heresay and theory, its all up to what you want to believe for yourself. There is no doubt about it it doesn't have a great impact on herps, although sometimes I do wonder if perhaps maybe litter sizes may be larger, more reliable, or with less slugs/deformities... or maybe you could squeeze another 3 or 4 years out of the animals life... if perhaps this could have any influence? No studies have ever been done though. Just curious how you can say it is not at all harmful to herps if no studies have ever been done? Remember that people that used softwoods on their animals for many years thinking everything was normal and their animals lived to the fullest, only to have their animals function longer and better after switching to another substrate. Another thing that can be difficult to compare with animals like snakes that have such long lifespans. Again, its all up to what each individual wants to make of it. I don't like it mostly for the workability, but I also can't breathe well around when its relatively new (under 6 months). Again, just curious, how many melamine enclosures do you have an how long have they been doing great for?