Weight Loss in Leo

Samba · 06-12-03, 10:19 AM

Hey guys,

If you remember my thread, 'Tapeworms!' you may recall my beloved Darwin was diagnosed with tapeworms approximately 10 days ago. My vet recommended 'Panacur' to deworm him. I have faithfully administered the medicine, depsite his dislike of the taste and ability to spit it out, I have made sure he recieved the doses needed.

Here's my problem: Darwin has suffered signifigant weight loss since his vet appointment, despite the fact I have been syringe-feeding him baby food (mixed with 'Enteral Insectivore'), hand-feeding him mealworms and waxworms and the like. No matter what I do his weight decreases. I was wondering if this is the effect of the worms (that are supposed to have been killed off by now), or a result of the medicine. Or could it be something my vet didn't catch?

Darwin is still young, at 5 years of age. When I got him he was about 45 grams, a little underweight but healthy (or at least I thought). For awhile he ballooned up to 60 grams or so, and in the last 3 weeks he's back to around 45 grams or so. Probably less. It seems like he loses weight everyday! Sometimes when I check in on him he looks thinner than he did a few hours before. I am really struggling to figure out what's going on...

I've called my vet and questioned him about this... he seems to think this is normal (?) I have to bring in a new fecal now to make sure the parasites are gone, but obtaining one will be difficult. He has no appetite, and really, really dislikes being 'assist-fed'. I've had Darwin for about 8 months now, and he was never really problematic until recently.

If anyone has been through a similar situation, or has ideas or suggestions please help me. I'm really starting to get scared, and I don't want to lose him...

Thanks in advance...

Alicewave · 06-12-03, 10:26 AM

It could be that Panacur is not effective on the type of worms he has. I'd get a second opinion if I were you.

How much of the formula are you getting into him? If you're getting at least 1 cc per day in him then you're probably not treating the right type of worm. If you're not feeding him that much of it, maybe try feeding him more of it.

Samba · 06-12-03, 10:37 AM

Meg... My vet has recommended .20 Cc per day for ten days. I'm really getting scared... for the first time I'm wondering if my vet cares at all? I've been pumpin' this lizard full of good stuff, live bugs and baby food and eh, it's frustrating to not see any progress.

Also, I was wondering if I should deworm my female albino (Girl)with the leftover Panacur? My vet said I could, and recommended it since she was housed with Darwin a few months ago. However, she looks great and doesn't to seem to have any problems (don't fix it if it ain't broken, right?)

I want to get a second opinion as soon as possible, as of yet I haven't received my disability check... GRRRRR

Thanks for the support, I will update soon... =(

drewlowe · 06-12-03, 10:49 AM

Samba i'm experiencing the same exact thing as you with my melanistic leo she started to show signs of improvement for a few weeks now it's down again i try to feed her waxworms (which is the onlything she will voluntaly take) But they go through her almost undigested. So i have started back up with the force feeding which she fights me every step of the way. I have also contacted my vet and he said the appeitie loss is normal from use of panacur.

I am going out on a limb here but i'm going to be trying this stuff called parazap. I have been battling with worms for 5 months now and i don't know what else to do cause any meds the vet gives her hasn't worked and i couldn't tell you how many times she has been seen (by the way she has roundworms). i had 7 in my colony that had got worms and all have bounced back to perfect health except for her. I am ordering parazap today and hope to get it in early next week. If you would like i will tell you if it has helped or not. This is my last resort everything else i have tried has failed. I cant take watching her suffer anylonger she has dwindled down to hardly anything. If this doesn't work i have no choice but to but her to sleep. (even though i don't want to cause she is my first reptile)

If you would like to check it out for yourself instead of waiting for my results the website is www.parazap.com Good luck with yours i hope all goes well.

drewlowe · 06-12-03, 11:10 AM

i would treat the other gecko also because it can spread very easy. but beware of loss of appetite.

Alicewave · 06-12-03, 11:16 AM

samba: .2 cc of panacur or of enteral insectivore? i dunno about panacur dosage but enteral you want to feed at least 1cc.

Samba · 06-12-03, 12:20 PM

Ok, I have called the vet's office. Wasn't able to speak with Darwin's doctor, but they will keep me on the 'list' so as soon as I get my check I can take him in. After posting the first time I went in to feed Darwin.

He ate 1 waxworm, and I had to fight to get him to swallow the damn thing. I let him rest for awhile and then I went back in and mixed some baby food (Chicken and Apples... only thing with chicken at the store), 'Enteral Insectivore and these 'flies' (they came in a can supposedly for leopard geckos, but no one will eat them). I ust threw them in the mix for added nutrition (and they are small enough to pass through the syringe).

Darwin ate (and I assume voluntarily because he licked the syringe) about 1/4 tsp of this mix.

Darwin's weight 10 days ago was 39 1/2 grams (he was weighed by the vet). I'm guessing now it's less then that.

I don't know what to do....it's incredibly frustrating to see him losing weight after I work so hard to feed him twice a day. The last two days though he has actually eaten 2 mealworms and 2 waxworms. I know it isn't much, but this is his first solid food for about two and a half weeks. He appears to digest ok, but his stools are always runny (you know, the liquid diet). I'm hoping things will get better and I won't have to put him down.

Funny thing is, I originally separated Darwin from Girl (the albino) because she was small and skinny. Now she's a fat little pig, and Darwin is the once I'm concerned about... I'm going to hold off on treating her because I don't want to compromise her weight. Since Darwin is ill, Girl will be bred to another male (owned by a friend) on July 1rst.

Please inform me on how the new med works out for you and your gecko, obviously this is of great interest to me!

Thanks again, both of you!

Blazin · 06-12-03, 01:33 PM

Just wanted to let you know there is a very informative article in the August Reptiles magazine on Pin worms. You should read it.

drewlowe · 06-12-03, 02:19 PM

Yes blazin i have read that article. It was very infomative. But right now samba is battling tapeworms and i am battling roundworms. They are different from pin worms.

Samba · 06-12-03, 03:36 PM

Yes, I actually subscribe to Reptiles Magazine. I have read the article, and it even states that in most cases pin worms aren't that big a deal. (It also goes on to include that pin worms are primarily an herbivorous parasite). Thanks anyways.

If anyone else can offer advice, please do. I am trying to support him the best I can, but you have ideas I haven't tried please feel free to inform me. These tapeworms are nasty... my little Darwin is literally starving to death... =(

drewlowe · 06-12-03, 04:08 PM

yep same here too loki has round worms though.

Samba if i find something that works i will let you know as soon as possible!!! That parazap should be in either sat. or monday i plan on giving her some asap when it arrives. I'll be sure to let you know how it is working if you would like i will send you daily pms on how she is doing just let me know either way.

Linds · 06-12-03, 04:38 PM

On an unrelated note...

I would strongly suggest getting a fecal done on Girl before putting her in with any other leos, regardless of whether or not you choose to treat her

Alicewave · 06-13-03, 06:54 AM

That's related and excellent advice.

Samba · 06-13-03, 09:29 AM

Thanks Linds... Funny you said that because I collected a sample from Girl yesturday and turned it in. I took all three Leos with me to the vet for their annual check-ups (that's how I discovered Darwin had tapeworms). However, Girl is getting another fecal done before breeding, as is her temporary mate.

Now an update... Yesturday I looked around online and found a piece of information I am going to take to my vet. It relates to tapeworms and Leos specifically. I'd like to post it here to share with all of you.

"Tapeworms

Tapeworms tend to be more common in those reptiles that eat fish or amphibians, and not overly common in leopard geckos. Tapeworms have an indirect lifecycle requirean intermediate host (such as a feeder insect), and is not easily spread. A leopard gecko that ingests an insect harboring the parasite, can develop tapeworms.

Common Symptoms:

When present in low loads, there are usually no overt signs or a problems. In higher loads however, one may see:

1.) Decrease in appetite and weight loss.
2.) Inflammation and swelling.
3.) Actual lesions that may become infected.

Diagnostic Methods:

There are several different techniques available to your veterinarian to help determine the possible presence of tapeworms. These could include:

1.) Complete physical examination.
2.) Detailed patient history and overview of husbandry.
3.) Fecal exams - seeing the ova (eggs) in a fecal floatation or even in a smear.
4.) Seeing a tapeworm in an excreted stool.
5.) Seeing small rice-like pieces (proglottids) of the tapeworm in the stool.

Treatment Options:

Common treatment options include the surgical removal of tapeworms and/or the use of Praziquantel.

Praziquantel is also refered to as Droncit and can be administered PO (orally) or IM (intramuscularly). The gecko is usually dosed again in 2 and possible again in 4 weeks.

~~> When dealing with medical problems such as tapeworms, proper personal hygiene, quarentine and disinfection techniques are absolutely necessary. Treating the gecko alone without treating the environment will NOT eliminate the problem!"

That came from: http://www.drgecko.com/cestodes.htm

Not sure if you guys ever visit that site, but I always find it interesting. I am taking this to my vet in the hopes he will treat my Darwin with this medicine instead of the Panacur, which I am finding may have been worthless.

I will keep you guys updated soon! Thanks again, I really appreicate all the advice and info you have lent. Much thanks!

Samba · 06-13-03, 09:53 AM

Okay... I called the vet's office. They do have Droncit, but they only have the oral (pills). The person I spoke with said that 1 pill crushed and divided into three equal parts should be enough to eradicate the tapeworms.

We have estimated Darwin's weight at this point to be a sickening 35 grams. (eh) I was wondering if you guys thought this dosage sounds appropriate. I haven't found any oral Droncit doesage information online for an animal this small. I will be picking up this pill in about an hour and a half... so if you can reply before then please do! I will update again later...