Minimum breeding size...

[Tim_Cranwill]

I just wanted to get some feedback from experienced breeders as to what you think the minimum age/weight/length of a breeding male and female King/Milk is...

[Colonel SB]

It really depends on the sub species because they all grow to different length, you'll have to be more specific. But in general 3 years is good for most kings & milks.

[Tim_Cranwill]

You're right. I'd need to be more specific. But I'm sort of looking for guidlines on any or all sub-species. The ones I'm keeping are...

Brooksi, Cal Kings, Hondos, Sins and Prairies. But really I'm just looking for opinions or experiences with Lampropeltis of any type...

[Vanan]

The way I judge the best size for breeding is finding out the average range and going for the median size at least.

It's kinda tough getting into each species and subspecies cos the Lampropeltis genus is so varied from the smallest being the scarlet king and the largest being the chain king. That's why I'd rather describe a blanket rule.

[Jeff_Favelle]

Males: 18 months for sure.

Females: 18 months (if you're on your game).

[Vanan]

Females: 18 months (if you're on your game).

...and if you want a breeder who will burn out in a short while (2-3 yrs) or possibly have health problems due to powerfeeding.

[Jeff_Favelle]

Weird. I've been breeding them for 10 years and this female is 8 years old and still going strong.

Does hard data not count in this day and age, or are we still living and breathing by outdated unpeer-reviewed "papers"?

[Vanan]

Not to knock your experience Jeff (which you probably have a lot more than me) but let me just say that it's the first time I've heard of a snake being bred early and still going strong after so long. I am humbled.

Just out of curiosity, just so I can add more hard data to my knowledge, how often was this particular hondo bred? Like every year since her 2nd year or did you give her years off?

I think it's great that you have an older snake going strong. That's what we're planning on doing too. Not get burnt out breeders after 2-3 yrs of breeding. Seen too many of those and it makes me sad. Sorry to have assumed the same with you.

While we're at it, dya have info on clutch sizes on this particular snake? Would like to see how clutch sizes vary over the years and see where they peak at. Most say the 2nd or 3rd year but I think they can keep going if well taken care of (like yours seems to be).

BTW, you expecting any anery hondos this year, you hondaholic! lol!

[Will]

I have no personal experience(yet), but most people I've asked say their 3rd year is a safe time to start for most Lampropeltis. I asked a well known American breeder that once, and he told me that for Females, he has a minimum of 250 grams regardless of age to minimize the possibilities of complications. That's for Females though, for the males, if they're willing and able(and not eaten if they're too small) they can breed after 18 months - horny little devils.

[Jeff_Favelle]

I only started keeping data this year, but she will double clutch, no probs. My buddy had a corn lay 30+ eggs every year from 18 months to 7 years. He sold them because they just bred too much. Its what they do. If people studied their recruitment rates, they'd be very very surprised. They are built to eat and breed. Its a myth that they aren't. Trust me.

No such luck for me for anerys. Man, that'd be sweet though. Damn you, now all I'm going to be thinking about is anerys!! Not fair!

Hypos maybe though. The female pictured is actually the wrong snake. Dammit. She's a possible het hypo that's 18 months old and will double clutch (hopefully).

Here's the older female. Every 2nd year is a double-clutcher:



My mistake! I hate this members.shaw crap. I can't keep track of my photos.

[Vanan]

Here's the older female. Every 2nd year is a double-clutcher:

Cool. Thought so. No wonder she's going strong. It's good that she's getting some rest in between.

As for corns, yea those guys are BREEDERS! Although you get the occasional weak line which don't do so well.

Anerys! Anerys!! lol!

[Jeff_Favelle]

Ha ha Vanan! You guys have an adult male anery right? Maybe we should breed him with an adult female albino next year?

But yeah, don't always believe what you hear or read. Just because I've done some things with some milks and getulas, doesn't mean that everyone will, or that I will repeat it. I mean, who's to say that I could buy 2.2 baby Cal. Kings, raise them to 5 footers in 18 months, breed the crap out of them, and have the female's die in 3 years? Could happen. Hasn't happened in my experience, and that hard data encompasses more than any book I could possibly read. But it still doesn't make it fact. Overfeeding might be a bad thing. It might not. I have a feeling that Vanan and I are at the extremes and the best method is somewhere in the middle for colubrids.

But who knows. At least we can discuss it and bounce ideas off each other. I'm thankful for that. Talking snakes is what makes us tick, right guys and gals?

Cheers Tim and Vanan. You guys are dedicated. For sure.

[Vanan]

Hehe thanks mate!

That's true Jeff, we're both extremists!! lol.

Oh btw, dunno where you've heard that we have an anery male hondo! Unless of course you're planning on sending us a gift for our "dedication"! lol!

[Jeff_Favelle]

I heard there was a few floating around in Van. and I just assumed.......


Hey, does the chat not work here anymore??

[Vanan]

Dunno haven't tried getting on it. The chat that is.

Yea, probably some around here. I know Henry had some anery babes last year.