"just take 'em to Mark"

[crimsonking]

Nearly everyone here has probably heard that (substitute your name) when someone gets a snake they can't get to feed or calm down. We need to stress to everyone the importance of education and research of future "pets". Anyone interested in a particular animal needs to learn all they can BEFORE they make a purchase. These forums are just one great example of the info available. Here's a little scarlet king that someone "just had to have" yet has no idea how to keep it. I'm sure there are many other similar stories here too. Responsibility lies with buyer AND seller.
:Mark

[Vanan]

I agree Mark. Especially with a more challenging snake like that beautiful scarlet.

[Andy_G]

Researching before buying is the only sensible thing a person can do when buying not just snakes, any pet. It really helps to have a home ready and established for it before it is introduced, much less time, much less hurry. Both the person and animal suffer from an impulse buy. The seller should also make sure of things, I agree 100%.

[Tim_Cranwill]

Hmmm... that's too bad. At least it's in the care of a qualified person now.

That's a really beautiful snake Mark. But I'm sure you already knew that.

[BWSmith]

*nudging Mark***
Got a nature center up here that just emailed me about 10 minutes ago looknig for a scarlet

[fr0glet]

I have to say, running a rescue as part of a group occasionally animals come into my care that I have zero experience with.

What normally happens is I learn the night before that I've got something new coming in, and then I stay up until 3am researching care sheets and consulting the books I have on hand. If I get a COME AND GET IT RIGHT NOW call for something I have no experience with, I bring it home and stick it in a tank with paper towel substrate, a water dish, and a hide, set up in my herp room at the ambient 80F, THEN launch into the research stage and finally adjust their enclosure to what they really need.

When I was a child I purchased several frogs and did no research on them, promptly killing them. I felt so terrible, as I love frogs so much and knew it was my fault they had died. I didn't own any herps for about 10 years after that. My mother knew exactly how I felt on the subject, and a couple of years ago she said "I'm buying you a White's Tree Frog for Christmas". This was in November. So, knowing it was coming, I started researching like a mad woman. This set the stage for the last couple of years of heavy research online and in libraries and an accumulated knowledge that I can honestly say I'm proud of.

Let me see, what was my point? OH YEAH! Mark, I agree 100% and thank you for bringing it up

[marylyn101]

I hate it when people go into pet shops and go impulse buying. i think shops should provide care sheets for animals there selling.

[Jeff_Favelle]

Yeah, but on the flipside, reasearch can be a detriment to the keeper. A lot of books are filled with crap, inane observations, bad techniques and advice, as well as outright lies. Would you reccomend 90% of the monitor books in publication right now for someone purchasing a first time monitor? If you would, I'd question your herp-knowledge.

The thing is, that many many nuances and secrets are still out there in the herpetoculture world. For sure. If you look at the early "bible" for Ball Python breeders (the one by AVS, written by Philippe de Vosjoli) it states that Ball eggs take 90 days to hatch at 90F!! Holy shee-at! If I was at day 80 and my Ball eggs hadn't hatched yet, I'd be doing something about it. And this is a book from the FREAKIN' President of the AFH and The Vivarium magazine!!! So what about all those other books by Mattison and Ditmars and Wagner and etc etc etc. How many pieces of bad info are in those? Answer: Lots!! And how is someone who isn't very well-versed in the herp world supposed to know? They can't. They have no point of reference to question the information available to them. So when someone sees a printed theory and its backed up by a pet-store employee, what the he!! else is a Noo-bee supposed to think?

Exactly.

And why do so many people take their herps to the vet? Keep them properly and you won't have to take them to a vet. They are bullet-proof denizens of this planet so people must be doing something seriously wrong to have to take them to a "medical" specialist.

Yikes.

[crimsonking]

I would add that on- line research of forums like this as well as UP TO DATE publications can be very helpful, if not necessary, Jeff. Perhaps a care sheet/book written by you for the would- be monitor owner would be a welcome and enlightening project. No one knows them like hands-on people. Still, it is my belief that getting all the info you can, sifting through the misimformation by asking all you can, and using common sense will help every herper in the long run. (as opposed to buying an animal without knowing how to care for it)

[Katt]

I maintain that *proper* research will never be detrimental.

Problem, about asking too many keepers how they keep, is that almost everyone has their differing opinion on what's the best way to maintain a certain species.

Research and common sense, that's what's needed.

[Vanan]

Btw, snakes do get sick even if husbandry requirements are perfect. By saing that there has to be something seriously wrong for you to ring it to a vet, that's misinformation to those newbies who dunno how to force-feed and dunno what drugs to use for an RI or even to treat and abcess. I don't think there's anything wrong in bringing an animals to the vets just because you're concerned. Nothing is ever healthy for long. Heck you could even receive something in bad condition. What then?

Don't mean to knock you down Jeff, just wanted others to know that it is ok to bring their sick snake to a vets. Rather than not knowing how to help it and killing it in the process.

[crimsonking]

Well, pretty good news for this guy and his owner. I got him to take a "drumstick" from a f/t pinkie yesterday. I just keep trying 'till something works and with this one I was lucky. Now to keep him feeding regularly!
:Mark

[fr0glet]

Originally posted by Jeff_Favelle
Would you reccomend 90% of the monitor books in publication right now for someone purchasing a first time monitor?

I've only got one recommendation for monitor books, and it's very new. The Savanna Monitor Lizard: The truth about Varanus exanthematicus by Daniel Bennett and Ravi Thakoordyal.

The thing is, that many many nuances and secrets are still out there in the herpetoculture world.

I agree with you 100% in that there is a ton of misinformation available online and in books. Myself, I'm a big proponent of participating in herp forums and bouncing ideas off seasoned herpers. I probably don't say it enough but I'm still new to herping and I have much to learn. The best info I've learned on herping came from responses to my specific questions on rec.pets.herp, often I've gotten conflicting information but so much of it can be determined good or bad using common sense and a basic understanding of animal (herp) husbandry.

And why do so many people take their herps to the vet? Keep them properly and you won't have to take them to a vet.

Well I can only speak for myself. I take my herps to see my local qualified, constantly-researching herp vet because I do rescue and often have sick or ill animals come into my care. Sometimes I can easily determine what their problem is, sometimes not. Indeed people do screw up their husbandry and get their animals sick and that's an appropriate time to seek expert advice. I'm sure there's plenty of old-school herp vets out there who haven't updated their research, but hopefully that's something the clientele would be questioning and actively seeking in a herp vet. Hm, I just worked in an article "How to choose a herp vet?" for my herp society, I think I'll go post it in the general forum. Let me know what you think Jeff.