What's with the biting?

[Beejay]

I'm really getting annoyed with my 2002, spring red sided garter. He started off eating well and was a joy to hold...but as soon as I changed from a shoebox to a 10gal he started biting and musking me...

Was it the weather, or the tank? He went from a rubbermaid shoebox with papertowel with two hides and a water to a tank with two hides, a branch and a water, aspen shavings (which he sometimes burrows in).

He's a gorgeous snake that eats well (f/t nb pink) and I handle him at least once a day, but that first dip into the vivarium always gets me stapled and then he musks as I pick him up. *sigh* He's fine once I get him out. Maybe a tiny hook? lol

Am I taking this too personally? Should I just put him back into the rubbermaid or let him get used to the 10 gallon? He's been in there for a month now...same behaviour.

Thanks!
Bj

[Stockwell]

Hey S, neonate snakes are frequently aggressive as are many serpents in general if they are healthy and not constantly being picked up(which does calm them down). As you know, I've worked with dozens of species,over two and a half decades, and I think I've been tagged by every single one, except perhaps rubber boas...that list includes lots of P. Regius and so called "placid" corn snakes sand boas and rosy boas too. I've even been bit by Eryx Johnii, the smooth scale sand boa, which is supposedly unheard of
Bottom line
Snakes Bite!!!, welcome to the band aid club!
And you want water snakes?? You're brave!(;o)
tip
You need to grab them fast, or cover their eyes while retrieving them, mid body.. most snake bites occur while your hand is approaching, and being detected.It's often defensive, especially with neonates. Bites happen less frequently once they are out, and not cornered...The aquarium change should have nothing to do with it, other than giving the snake more time to see you coming, via direct sight, or light changes/shadowing due to the high transparency with all the glass. Maybe we'll get you one of those mini telescoping hooks. You could always pin them with those fuzzy mits of yours! LOL
j

[Beejay]

Haha! It WASN'T my cat. That's just the way they are

Guess I have to learn to be more aggressive with Harvey so he learns I don't like being bit.

Men are all the same

Bj

[Vanan]

Hey Roy! Nice to see you here! Kinda snuck up on me! Anyways Beejay, Roy's the man. He's pretty much right. Although I think I give better advice roy! lol j/k

[Beejay]

Well Vanan, I'm glad to see you and Roy are both against me or on my side, whichever

hehehe

Okay so I need to stop focusing on the gathering and pay more attention to the handling. Thanks

Bj

[Simon R. Sansom]

Hi Roy! WooHoo! Nice to finally see you here. Things aren't quite so stagnant in these forums, lol!

BeeJay; What if you were to try putting your little guy back in his smaller container, just as a test to see if settles back down or stays aggressive? It's known that small snakes in big enclosure can feel insecure. Maybe that's his problem? Just a thought.

Regards,

Simon

[Jeremy]

Hey BJ,
My guess would be that the little guy is feeling insecure in his new surrounding and hasnt quite gotten used too the new cage. I find that alot of snakes act more defensive after being switched to a new set up, untill they become fimiliar with it. As a general rule, I allow any snake which has been given a new home to sit for 3-5 days undisturbed. They are usualy alot less skittish after this brake from their bug, ugly nemisis, aka keeper:-D

Welp, good luck and let us know how it turns out.

Jeremy

[fr0glet]

One thing that sprung into my mind is... is the new cage much more exposed? I'm sure in the small shoebox the sides were opaque... so he might feel threatened by too much exposure from all sides. I'd cover three sides of the tank and see if that helps any!

[Beejay]

Um yes...very exposed and my cat bats away the tank all the time.

I tried keeping her out of the room but it's not working. I think I'll try the small rubbermaid again and see what happens.

Thanks!
Bj

[J_Riley]

Originally posted by Beejay
Um yes...very exposed and my cat bats away the tank all the time.

I think you just answered your own question...

[Andy_G]

Definitely the cat. A flying giant fur ball that makes a lot of weird vibrations would sure creep me out if I was a snake that small.

[Jonathan Crowe]

That's one of mine, actually -- born in May 2001. (Should have e-mailed me about that, BJ!) I'm starting to get reports that some of them have gotten both flighty and nippy as they get older. So far they're 2001 males. Damned if I know what's causing it, but will look into this.

Males are usually quick, but not necessarily aggressive, or musky, or bitey.

I can also say something about garter snake-cat contact (through glass, of course) . . . a few garters have managed to put up with it very well.

It might be the initial grab that is the problem: you're not reaching from quite as high up in a shoebox as you are in a 10 gallon. Maybe a sweater box, which has roughly the same area as a 10-gallon tank, might help?

As I say, I'm puzzled. They were all sweethearts as babies . . .

[Flo]

Bev,

I have several observations on the matter.

1) I'm wondering whether the substrate has something to do with your garter's nippiness. I have observed before that thamnophis can be jumpier and nippier when on a substrate that they can burrow into. If they're hidden in the substrate and can't see you reaching for them, they might bite you upon grabbing them. But that's when you try to grab them. Once in hand, they do just fine.

2) Thamnophis seem to do better when there's more than one in a terrarium. I have two yearling garters, each housed in a 5-gal aquarium (for space reasons). They've been jumpier since being separated.

3) As Jonathan pointed out, males seem to be nippier than females. I don't know why either.

4) My thamnophis are always hungry (higher metabolism than elaphe, for example). Often, they've bitten me, thinking I was bringing food (though I never reach in with my bare hand to feed them). They are otherwise "puppies" when handled.

Again, I wouldn't worry too much. The fun thing about garters is that they're always active and cute in their cage. So enjoy observing and handling yours. Taking him out of his cage is just one quick step.

[Beejay]

Uhg, well I'm changing him back to a wider rubbermaid tomorrow then, Jonathan. He got me again today. That's interesting that other ones are doing the same thing from the same litter though.

Thanks for your advice everyone! Oh yeah, and I meant 2001 <--duh.

Bj