Feelings towards breeding

Snake_Hunter · 04-07-03, 08:18 AM

Hey all
I just read this post from someone stating that you could breed a 18-month old Male BCI with a 8 year old Female BCI and was appaled by this. This is the first i've ever heard of this and I personally disagree with this statement. A Male BCI should only be bred in my eyes at at least 5yrs of age, healthy, and of a good weight 30-40lbs. Just wondering what others thought of this.

Thanks
Andrew

:groove:

LdyDrgn · 04-07-03, 08:46 AM

I don't know about 18 months old (definitely TOO small to go in with a large female, he could quite possibly be crushed to death). I do not believe they reach sexual maturity until about 3 years old anyway. The male should be of a good size when going in with such a large female. A small male may not have hemipenes strong enough to last through a "twitch" of hers and possibly causing one of them to break off. :bugout:

Dom · 04-07-03, 09:06 AM

Personally age makes no difference to me .. size is what matters.. u need a good size male to breed .. if he's too small, it will simply not produce viable sperm..

Some ppl have snakes that eat like crazy and can be a good 15 pounds in the first 18 month and others, it could take up to 3 years.. If its big enough, no matter the age I would bread it. That is if I though it was safe..

As for the males being squoosh to death and his hemipenes broken off.. I think this is a bit far fetched..

Jeff_Favelle · 04-07-03, 09:27 AM

Ha ha, not too sure why you find it "appalling" but it happens all the time. Ask the boa breeders of the world and they don't wait until Year 4 for their males to breed. Mating is not taxing on the males (relative to the females) so I'm ultra-curious as to what deliterious effects you THINK it may have on the males. Veerrry curious.

Males breed at 4-5 feet. They get that big in 10-14 months. No problems at all. The thing is, many people BELIEVE a lot of different things. And that's fine. But they shouldn't pass those things off as fact until they prove them out. The industry has proved that males breed earlier than females (reasons are obvious when actually thought about) and that's what really matters. Its not enough to believe something to be true, and its not enough to say "I heard this and this to be true". You have to actually DO these things. And that's when you're thoughts really count, because you are contributing to the here-and-now.

Go to this forum to talk to the leaders in the industry if you're so concerned:

http://www.theboaforum.com/cgi-bin/y...board=Breeding

NERD's care sheet. They say 30 months for males, but NERD's care sheets are outdated.

http://www.newenglandreptile.com/CareInfo/CareBoa.html

And if you are REALLY serious about boa breeding, then get this video.

http://www.theboaphile.com/article.html

Still wonderin what's so "apalling".....

lol.

LdyDrgn · 04-07-03, 09:42 AM

Not far fetched at all, Dom. It really does happen! I know someone who HAS had her male squashed to death by the much larger female. It is also possible for one of the hemipenes to break off. Note I said "possibly". Just because you have never seen it or heard of it before doesn't mean it can't happen.

Jeff, what the heck are you feeding a male that he is reaching 5 feet in 10-14 months?? And as far as the BoaPhile is concerned, my b/f used to work for him. Yes, we have that video as well as Drastic Plastics, a sweater box rack and a few of his sweetest het offspring.

I'll let Kevin and Kara know that someone thinks their caresheets are outdated, too.

Jeff_Favelle · 04-07-03, 10:09 AM

Yes, please let Kara know that those care sheets have to be updated!! Ha ha, I'm sure I've bugged her about it before!! She's re-doing the site. Also, tell her to keep the Bumblebee pics coming. She knows that's the best one.

Hemipenes breaking off? Holy. But they aren't a solid object. They are fleshy and maleable. Weird. That'd be something to see.

LdyDrgn · 04-07-03, 05:45 PM

Kara says the new site should be up week after next. Poor thing is ragged, LMAO. I agree, I didn't want to believe about their caresheets being outdated. I mean... It's NERD fer cryin' out loud!

I still will not agree about 18 month old males being able to breed, but I won't continue to argue. It is merely my opinion that they aren't old enough. Maybe some can, but not all of them.

Linds · 04-07-03, 05:47 PM

I agree, males can breed much earlier than females. 4-5 years is the general guideline for females, however males have been known to breed successfully at 3.5 feet. As Jeff mentioned, it is more of a size and maturity issue than an age thing. LdyDrgn touched on a good point as well about the females size in relation to the male. Common sense needs to be applied, although a male may be ready to breed at 4', it isn't wise to go stick it in with a 9' female

I don't find anything appauling about males breeding at 2-3 years of age, just as long as attention is paid to the situation, and common sense is applied to all aspects

reptilesalonica · 04-07-03, 06:28 PM

It's true that with the right size (metric here so let's don't confuse each other lol), males can be bred from early age but it is better for the snake and the offspring to wait until it is 2 1/2 years of age. This is the hard part for boa lovers...be patient.

Katt · 04-07-03, 06:46 PM

I don't see what's the rush to push animals to breed young, anyhow? Why breed a young male, when with a bit more time he'll be bigger with better sperm counts.

Jeff_Favelle · 04-07-03, 08:24 PM

I'm still curious of these detrimental effects that early breeding is going to have on a male snake.

Veeeerrryy curious.

And there is no "rush". People breed stuff when they want to breed stuff. Its their perogative. As for not producing viable sperm at early ages, PLEASE show me the facts that back that up. Making up stuff is not really nice to do on a public forum as noo-bees are probably reading this and passing this heresay on to other, even newer noo-bees. Not cool. But if it is a proven thing, then my apologies. But in my 13 years, I haven't heard of that at all.

djnzlab · 04-08-03, 05:47 PM

hi,
I know a boa breeder in the states who has a rather large female bci who actually crushed and killed her male mate who was considered breeding size adult male who was proven with this female , so my guess is the female may actually constrict a bit during the mating process.. so anything is possible,,I would try and stay within the norms of age/size ratio's them learning curves
can get someone killed.
doug

Linds · 04-09-03, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jeff_Favelle
I'm still curious of these detrimental effects that early breeding is going to have on a male snake.

Veeeerrryy curious.

Agreed, I have never heard of early breeding being at all harmful to the male (with the exclusion of the size ratios discussed above, however that isn't really the same thing and can easily be avoided). Females, yes they should be much more developed or you risk stunted growth, bad litters, or worse case even death

But nope... never heard of any health hazards from males, of any species of reptile, being bred at early ages.