House Snake Identification Help

SerpentineDream · 06-05-17, 06:06 PM

I bought 1.2 captive hatched African house snakes that were sold as olive house snakes. They arrive tomorrow. The problem is that there are multiple subspecies that those could be, none of which interbreed so I want to be sure of what I've got. The seller said their parents were wild caught imports and he never could get a clear answer from the exporter when he asked what the Latin name was.

He had these pics so I'm posting them here (credit to Mike Schultz) to see if we can get a positive ID.

Hatchlings are nearly black and they lighten as they mature. The parents came from Ghana. I think that rules out South African olive house snakes (Lamprophis inornatus) and green phase common house snakes (Boaedon fuliginosus). And I *think* that these are "true olive house snakes," Boaedon olivaceus, formerly Lamprophis olivaceus. From my research it appears that their territories don't significantly overlap and B. olivaceus lives too far north to be either of the other subspecies.

Thoughts from those more experienced with house snakes?

Hatchling

Adult

Charis · 06-05-17, 07:36 PM

I am not very good at I.Ding the different House snakes but I feel confident saying that they are not B. fuliginosus based on looks, for sure. I'm not familiar enough with either inornatus or olivaceus to comment on those.

SerpentineDream · 06-05-17, 09:06 PM

That actually does help. B. fuliginosus is the only one whose range came even close, so that you were able to eliminate that as a possibility suggests that B. olivaceus is the only one left standing.

Additional clues are that B. olivaceus is almost unheard of in the US because it is so hard for collectors to get to them in the dense rain forest. Ghana, from which these guys hail, is mostly rain forest. L. inornatus appears to have a thicker head than these guys. And supposedly something unique to B. olivaceus is that it has a single caudal plate under the cloaca. I'll check when they arrive tomorrow.

But it looks like we have bona fide true olive house snakes! Jackpot! If I'm able to verify that tomorrow I'll have to let Mike know he's got some rare critters.

They don't look like much until the light hits them just right. Then they glow. The iridescence reminds me of a semi-precious gem called labradorite. Pic from Google Images.

Magdalen · 06-05-17, 09:41 PM

OOoooh wow they are lovely. I'm not any help on this, I just wanted to say they are lovely.

I'm becoming a house snake fan

dannybgoode · 06-05-17, 11:47 PM

If they are B olivaceus then I'll be extremely jealous! One of the few snakes that if I saw one tomorrow I'd buy without hesitation.

**Aaron_S** · 06-06-17, 08:16 AM

I want some in a few years when you produce them! Please put me on the list.

SerpentineDream · 06-06-17, 08:36 AM

Hooray, a customer already!

Am anxiously waiting for a small box to arrive....

jjhill001 · 06-06-17, 02:11 PM

I love the jet black ones.

SerpentineDream · 06-06-17, 04:17 PM

They are here and I still can't say for sure what they are. I know they aren't South African olives because these have elliptical pupils and South African olives have round pupils. Charis is certain they aren't B. fuliginosus. They were definitely collected in Ghana, ruling out Cape house snakes. Typically true olives have red or reddish brown eyes. These guys have dark brown eyes. The seller says sometimes their eyes do lighten in color and of the adults that come in, some have red eyes and some don't. They have one single subcaudal plate under the cloaca and the rest of the subcaudal scales are divided. I'm not sure if that is typical of true olives or if the single scales are supposed to go all the way down the tail.

The seller is supposed to get more adults in in a week or two and he's going to send me more photos of adults. He's also going to ask if they were collected from rain forest or grasslands. Ghana is largely rain forest but not entirely and knowing that will help.

They are dark gray, almost black but they have a greenish iridescent sheen. The seller said often they lighten up as they mature but that locality never gets super light like some of the olives I've seen.

I'm still inclined to say they are true olives. I wish someone could say for sure but neither he nor I know any experts on B. olivaceus.

Hmm, can B. olivaceus and B. fuliginosus intergrade? That would explain a lot.

Some pics showing the shape of the head, the eyes and the tail. The females are in shed. They are the size of nightcrawlers and very wriggly so pics aren't super sharp.

SerpentineDream · 06-06-17, 04:17 PM

Double post.

ThirteenRavens · 06-06-17, 06:02 PM

I'm of no help, but I love AHS!! Congrats on the gorgeous babies

Magdalen · 06-06-17, 07:34 PM

Oooooh nice I might need one of your babies

dannybgoode · 06-06-17, 11:06 PM

Not true olive I think with divided scales like that. They should be single all the way down but happy to stand corrected by someone more knowledgeable in house snakes.

Beautiful either way.

SerpentineDream · 06-07-17, 04:55 PM

They really are beautiful. I love them no matter what they are.

The problem is that I need to know exactly what they are before selling any future babies. I don't want to advertise them as being one species or another and end up selling a false bill of goods.

Does anyone know a house snake expert / specialist who might be able to provide a positive ID on the little guys?

ETA: I have no idea why Photobucket suddenly decided that the tail of a snake is suddenly a violation of TOS. :lol

**Aaron_S** · 06-08-17, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SerpentineDream

They really are beautiful. I love them no matter what they are.

The problem is that I need to know exactly what they are before selling any future babies. I don't want to advertise them as being one species or another and end up selling a false bill of goods.

Does anyone know a house snake expert / specialist who might be able to provide a positive ID on the little guys?

ETA: I have no idea why Photobucket suddenly decided that the tail of a snake is suddenly a violation of TOS. :lol

Unfortunately I don't know any experts left on the forum. There used to be a guy but he hasn't been around in years. I'll try to find him when I have a bit more free time to look through the members list.

I thought subspecies couldn't interbreed? It would explain the dark colouration if B. Fug. and B. Oliveceaus (sp?) bred.