New from Kansas, first snake advice

[alyssaash]

Hello all! My name is Alyssa, I'm in Manhattan, KS, originally from Southern California. I apologize in advance for the long post, but am needing some advice/sense talked into me. I've been interested in keeping snakes for years now but haven't taken the plunge and acquired my first yet. I have a friend from back home that keeps and breeds a few different varieties and has said that he would send me a Hog Island Boa from his next litter later this year, which I've been super excited about, and have since taken to hanging out in my local reptile store admiring the babies and adults, chatting with employees, and browsing forums such as this one to gain information since I have zero practical experience with snakes. All has been on track to prepare for the Hog Island later on, but a few days ago the reptile store got in an absolutely gorgeous albino reticulated python. He's got tons of lavender and the most adorable orange head. I've been too enamored with staring at him to take a picture, next time I'll try to remember and show you all. My boyfriend fell head over heels in love with the little guy and we've been visiting with him and holding him every day. He's extremely docile for a baby. The store employees seem extremely confident that we won't have any problems starting off with a giant as our first snake; they all keep them themselves and apparently haven't ever had any issues to mention (the latter being key). I'm also aware that they are trying to make a sale and may give less-than-solid advice to newcomers in order to make a few (hundred) bucks. They've let us hold the adult retics in the store and my boyfriend and I are awestruck at their size, power, and the sheer presence they command. He is telling me to screw waiting around for the boa, that we're getting the baby retic, "go big or go home." As much as I would love to have him, I'm reasonably worried for us all. I've read horror stories of inexperienced keepers injuring themselves or others with even smaller snakes because they don't know how to handle or keep them, plus I would absolutely hate to end up killing the poor thing due to my inexperience despite all the research in the world. I've been pouring over forums, books, and articles about retics trying to convince myself how bad of an idea it is to get this guy as our first snake, but every time I see him again or a picture of one similar to him..... it's love, there's no denying it. I've tried reasoning with the boyfriend, saying let's start out with a ball and go from there, but he's pretty insistent on the retic... and honestly the thought of a ball python doesn't flip my skirt in the slightest. The colors are fun, but the feeding issues and small size aren't doing much of anything for my interest. There's always the option of the Hog Island again, but now that the snake bug has bitten it'll be even more difficult to wait now than it was five months ago when the option was presented to me, and I'm not really feeling the connection with the breed as I unfortunately am with the retics. I've been digging up pictures of little kid me at birthday parties and the zoo beaming ear to ear with a big yellow snake wrapped around my entire self, and pictures from my teens down at Santa Monica beach paying $5 to take a picture holding the giant pythons. I've always been fascinated with the extra large snakes, I've got the space for one, the financial ability to care for one, access to rabbits to feed when it's older..... and there I go again trying to convince myself it's not a horrible idea not to start with something smaller! Help me out here!

[Minkness]

Wow! What a post!

First of all..WELCOME!

Second of all, thank you for asking FIRST.

Now, my opinion will differ from MANY, but you came here for a reason. That being said, I don't always believe in 'starter' animals. I do believe in lots of research and preparation though. So, if BPs and boas don't excite you, DON'T get them! If you really feel drawn to giants, great! Starting with a baby is a much better way to go than jumping into an already 13 foot snake. If you have the space, the money, and the patience, then anything is possible. =)

There are several VERY knowledgeable giant keepers on the forum who I am sure will chime in with some excellent information. I will say that when I talked about getting a retic from my local shop (who is known for refusing a sale of a giant if they don't feel the customer is up to it), they told me to make sure to tap train and to treat the snake with respect. They may get moody and not want to be messed with one day, but be fine the next. Respect that and they will 'respect' you. They also suggested hook training since as they get larger, you can't just reach in and grab them. My local store guys wnded up talking me into a super dwarf/dwarf cross for my 1st retic. (Probably only retic due to space availability).

IF you choose to look at a starter snake and stull live retics, I highly recommend looking into super dwarves. They come in some nice colors now and pack all the retic attitude and intellegence into a more easily handled package. It's not always tue size of the animal, it's the individual. Some Boas can be total a**holes but a burmese could be a totally chill, more enjoyable animal to own.

So again, if smaller, slower moving, heavier bodied snakes don't do it for yiu...just don't do it! =)

[MartinD]

Hello and welcome to the forum Alyssa.

I agree with Minkness, I am extremely delighted that you are researching your animals as many people don't. I can understand how you feel about getting small snakes to start with. Before I got into snakes I started off with 2 Leopard Geckos which I sold to a friend of mine, then I got 2 bearded dragons but, there was something missing, I never felt the connection with the geckos or dragons as I do with my snakes.

I started with 2 ball pythons and now have 5, 2 dwarf boas, with another on order and I'm waiting delivery of a SD Retic. Yes I would love a retic BUT, I live on my own, I'm 64 yrs old and if I got into trouble due to its size then that would be very dangerous, so know your limitations.

You will not end up with 1 snake as this hobby is an addiction, so I would think about a dwarf or super dwarf retics and work your way up to the giants, some of the dwarves can get big as well.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[Jim Smith]

Welcome aboard and congratulations for researching and asking rather than making an impulse purchase and asking later. I am going to offer a different point of view from Minkness and Martin, both of whom are experienced reptile keepers. Giants, like venomous snakes require more caution and care than other species in their handling and housing. Giants require very spacious enclosures, food prey items and when even partially grown require at least two people to safety handle. They are incredibly strong and just cleaning their enclosures requires two people for safety reasons. The things you want to consider are:

1. Husbandry: space for the enclosure, permission to keep giant reptile where you want to live (many apartments won't allow large snakes), cost of large food prey items, etc
2. Insurance: Many insurance companies will not insure if venomous or giant snakes are kept on the premises.
3. State regulations: While giants may be permitted where you are now, there are laws in many which prevent ownership of giants should job opportunities etc. require you to relocate to a different state.

I would offer a word of caution that you reconsider starting with a giant snake as your first animal. If I were recommending a first snake, I would suggest a species that maintains a size that you can easily and safely handle and manage by yourself and that has housing requirements that are less demanding than a retic. That's just one man's opinion but there are other giant keepers here that hopefully will weigh in on this discussion to help you make your decision.

[RAD House]

I am going to have to disagree with my fellow members, there are absolutely beginner animals. Certain species are more forgiving of the mistakes you will inevitably make as a beginner in the hobby. Also these beginner snakes will be more forgiving in learning to handle. If you are really set on retic as your first snake, which I wouldn't recommend, I would implore you to get as much experience with adults as possible. I would suggest gaining experience with an aggressive adult as there is no guarantee how your animals temperament will be as an adult. Ask if the shop guys, who are encouraging you, if they will show you how they handle their animals. In my opinion no amount of internet research will fully prepare you for owning a retic. Hopefully someone who actually owns an adult retic will be on here to advise you further.

[TRD]

I don't think a snake that will grow out to be ~6 meters (~20 ft) is a good way to start. You can't handle it alone when its full grown... and if it does turn out to be nasty later on, can be quite dangerous. When you own a giant snake, or venomous snake, you should never assume that you throw a mouse or other animal in there once a week and that's it. You need to be able to provide for it, clean its enclosure, handle it when you have to, take it to a vet when its in need, etc. I'm not going to mention here what would happen if you eventually can't care for a 20 ft retic and try to get rid of it... there are many retics in reptile shelters due to people misjudging what it takes to care for one over all those years.

If you like pythons, that's fine, there are many species that stay a lot smaller and as such can actually be handled much easier..

I'm not trying to be rude here, but really evaluate what it takes to own such a big snake and be REALLY honest to yourself if you can take such care on you for the next 20+ years.

That said, love=love ... It's hard to take your mind of an animal that you really like. You seem responsible, though your message here indicates that you do know it's likely not the best choice to make.

[alyssaash]

Thanks so much for the replies! I appreciate the advice. To answer some of the "to consider" points, boyfriend and I own our home and could dedicate half of our 750sqft basement-turned-master-bedroom to a cool enclosure if we really wanted so I don't think space will be an issue in the near future, we plan on going back to breeding rabbits, chickens, and goats again within the next year so acquiring food shouldn't be a problem, and our insurance would be something to look into but when we've had "dangerous" dog breeds and a slew of farm animals on the property our insurance was only concerned with fencing and if they were allowed to run at large, so not expecting too many problems there but definitely something to look into. The city of Manhattan doesn't allow giant snakes but my property is in unincorporated area, outside of city limits so the people at the reptile store said I'd be golden, but again something to look into. I know the logical part of me is saying that the handsome little retic at the reptile store isn't the wisest choice, so I'm starting to look into the dwarfs now and will tackle the issue with the boyfriend once I've definitively made up my mind, haha. Any suggestions on where to look online to purchase from reputable breeders? It seems I've missed the only reptile show in Kansas by quite a few months and am not too keen on waiting around until next year. My budget is around $600 with shipping. I'm still planning on hanging out at Reptile World frequently, visit with my little guy while he's there and his large cousins and hopefully get some more hands-on experience with the giant snakes even if I do decide to get something smaller for now.

[sockSnek]

I don't have any giants myself, but I also agree with Mink and Martin that it's important to get an animal you're passionate about and that you're prepared to do all the research required to give it at good life. It definitely seems like you've got those down, which is refreshing since so many people don't think that far ahead. There are a lot of really knowledgeable people here who can help with anything you're not sure about if you do happen to go this route.

Some other things to think about:
1. Retics can't be legally transported across state lines, regardless of size, so your breeder will need to be in Kansas and you won't be able to bring the snake if you move in the next ~20 years.

2. The enclosure and everything that needs to go in it will likely cost more than your snake.

3. You might want to plan early for the enclosure. Sometimes they take a long time to ship. I ordered one from animal plastics (a lot of people really like their enclosures), and they told me it would take 10-12 weeks, which is only ok because I ordered it way before my snake would outgrow his current one. You might not run into this problem with other manufacturers, but I think it's worth mentioning.

4. Giant snakes do giant poops.

[eminart]

Welcome!

If I were you, I'd start with something else. You may realize that you don't even like keeping snakes. Purple retics (and a million other morphs) are always available. It's not like this is your one shot to get one.

I've been keeping snakes since the mid 80's, and, once I got into it, I never had the desire to keep any of the giant snakes. I'm not intimidated by them or anything, but I don't want to take up half a room with one enclosure, clean up mountain sized poops, and I'm not interested in something that I'd need to have help to handle or move. That's not to say that you can't love them. Lots of people do. But, the reasonable thing to do is get something easier to deal with and see how long your interest in snakes lasts.

[Aaron_S]

Many good points already posted. I'd like to re-state some of the best ones.

1. You may not like actually owning a snake. I've known a few people who loved them but when it came to feeding their own they hated having to feed prey items to their snake. A smaller snake would be easier to re-home/re-sell.

2. The retic is being manhandled. I bet you aren't the only ones handling him "daily" and likely the stress level is up, so the snakes behaviour could easily be different once home and in a secure/less traffic place.

3. I know you said you and your boyfriend own your own place, however you may want to consider what happens if you split up? What happens to the snake? Who takes it? Where will you live with a giant snake? Can you afford the snake upkeep and a new enclosure? What about kids? Do you plan to have any? I've seen many couples sell off collections/pet snakes when they have kids due to time/upkeep/energy.

4. You need to absolutely check your local bylaws. Just because the city of Manhattan has laws and you're outside those limits it doesn't mean there's a Mad Max vibe where you can do whatever you want. Same thing about buying from a breeder, they can't cross state lines due to the Lacey act so you'll have a hard time buying AND selling if there's issue.

5. Insurance companies don't like exotics. Careful here. Lilvestock/dogs are NOT exotics.

6. It can be dangerous for the snake and both you or your boyfriend. Do you two have the work schedules where you're both home to handle a large snake for cleaning/feeding/changing water?

7. Even if it's a smaller male all the deaths by giant snake species happened by snakes in the 7 - 10 foot range. It shows carelessness on the keepers part that they thought they could handle it alone.


Lastly, these are kind of assumptive things about you but we only know you from two posts. I have never met you or spoken to you directly so I don't know your passion level. I am a firm believer in general people will take care of the animal they love most and do what's necessary to keep it alive. However, it was a simple switch from the boa to the retic for you and your boyfriend and I definitely think in this situation you should start smaller for 6 - 12 months then go for a retic. You talk about space and having the money so why not wait just a bit longer?

Don't go with a ball python. Go with your original boa or something else.

[MartinD]

Aaron said this at the end of his post 'You talk about space and having the money so why not wait just a bit longer?'......I waited 53 years for my first snake, so a few months or a year even is a piece of cake.

[Tsubaki]

Most things have been said already, I agree fully with Aaron.

Just wanted to share a story,.. I did not feel ready to start with my main passion (Retics) until about 5 years of keeping other species (give or take). Would have kept them sooner if Super-dwarves were something that was available back then... But, you either went big or had nothing. I started with a baby, so i could grow with it.. I would NEVER advise someone to take on bigger retic as a first snake, my prior knowledge helped a lot. The first time one of my retics had a really bad day, I'll never forget.. She had soiled her entire tank, front to back, then flipped her 60 liter water-bowl over it (Yay..) Called my backup and proceeded to get her out of her enclosure. She rushed out of her tank in a rage of biting around her, before I could properly hook her. Angry for god knows why, I suspect ovulation. She suddenly looked a LOT bigger than 14ft... Frustrating, maybe even frightening.. She bit at everything. But we managed. With a lot of caution we managed to get her into her box, took us a long time and we were covered in pee.. Mind you, we were both experienced keepers (with other fairly large species) this took us by surprise, in general she was a very gentle giant.. I don't think i want to know what would've happened if we had never dealt with angry snakes before.. Putting her back was slightly easier, just some half arsed attempts to bite. Later that night, I walk by her tank and she SLAMS her face into the front.. Blood running from her mouth, lip curled inward in an awkward way.. She ruptured her dental tissue. Great.. An emergency vet appointment with a very angry retic. At the vet it took 5 people hold her down so the vet could clip the teeth that stuck out through her lip, so her mouth could close again. She peed on everything and everyone.. Vet stitched the gums, had to give her oral medication daily for 10 days.. We only managed 8 days, on day 9 she saw us coming and held on to dear life to a branch in the corner while attempting to piece my face, we called the vet and she said if it wasn't swollen, it wasn't worth stressing her out even more. She was extremely aggressive with every attempt to get her out of her enclosure for several weeks.. With some good feedings behind her, she returned to her usual self.. She still was quite a handful every breeding season.

What I mean with this story is, this COULD happen, I had a lot of retics and most were absolutely fine.. Bit defensive in the tank but other than that they were great.. But even the nicest ones had a bad day now and then, if you don't recognise those signs simply because you have never seen those signs before.. You might be in big trouble if the snake is already at a potentially dangerous size.. My personal opinion is, if you can NOT handle a snake if it turns out to be the biggest hell-fury ever to have existed.. You should not get it, you're not ready


P.s. If i call my vet, she STILL asks if its about 'that snake'